I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:38 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:And Oh_The_Humanity, you weren't saying it subjectively, such as "I think it has no value." You simply said it as an absolute- "It has no value," which does depict you as self-righteous and/or arrogant. Now, enough with calling on Zeus to smite each other with lightning; please be polite.

    If anything you were the one acting self-righteous and/or arrogant.
    I never said anything about anything having any value?.
    Go back and read my posts.
    You dont need to take things so seriously. tongue


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Juutas on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:43 pm

    The number one thing I hate about Skyrim is the equip burden and I don't want that s*it in my Dark Souls experience that (for now) has intelligent difficulty. Maybe some guys want to spend more time in inventory management than actually playing the game but I don't.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by sinspaw on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:52 pm

    Amen to what Acarnatia said.

    Let me emphasize something some of you seem to not get the grasp of.

    You can dislike weight limit. It's a perfectly valid opinion, and one I understand. It can be frustrating to manage your inventory. What is most definitely NOT a valid opinion is outright saying it adds nothing to the game. It is a very different thing to say you dislike it, and another to say that it's meaningless. Saying weight limit is meaningless is like saying dual wielding is meaningless. Game mechanics can bring about frustration or delight, but rare are the ones that add nothing to the game (which, again, is not the case for weight limit), and saying so just makes you look stupid. Sorry to say.
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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:12 pm

    sinspaw wrote:Amen to what Acarnatia said.

    Let me emphasize something some of you seem to not get the grasp of.

    You can dislike weight limit. It's a perfectly valid opinion, and one I understand. It can be frustrating to manage your inventory. What is most definitely NOT a valid opinion is outright saying it adds nothing to the game. It is a very different thing to say you dislike it, and another to say that it's meaningless. Saying weight limit is meaningless is like saying dual wielding is meaningless. Game mechanics can bring about frustration or delight, but rare are the ones that add nothing to the game (which, again, is not the case for weight limit), and saying so just makes you look stupid. Sorry to say.

    I agree.
    I think that whomever said it "adds nothing to the game" most likely meant, to them it adds nothing.I'm not sure how you can take it any other way. There talking from there experience, so it adds nothing to there game, not everyone's game. That just doesn't make sense.
    So I think we need to ask questions more, like "what do you mean?", or "can you elaborate on how you came to that conclusion?" instead of getting defensive (not directed at anyone)and possibly offending someone. Its so easy to take things the wrong way in text, and things sometimes get out of hand over very trivial misunderstandings.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Juutas on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:50 am

    sinspaw wrote:Amen to what Acarnatia said.

    Let me emphasize something some of you seem to not get the grasp of.

    You can dislike weight limit. It's a perfectly valid opinion, and one I understand. It can be frustrating to manage your inventory. What is most definitely NOT a valid opinion is outright saying it adds nothing to the game. It is a very different thing to say you dislike it, and another to say that it's meaningless. Saying weight limit is meaningless is like saying dual wielding is meaningless. Game mechanics can bring about frustration or delight, but rare are the ones that add nothing to the game (which, again, is not the case for weight limit), and saying so just makes you look stupid. Sorry to say.

    Ok, yes...let me rephrase that: It does add something alright, it makes the game worse and interrupts the gaming experience with unnecessary inventory management.
    By saying it adds nothing also means it adds something we are better without.
    If we would replace all the SFX in the game with fart sounds it would also "add" something in the game but it would take away more than it gives, so it would be safe to say it would add nothing.

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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:37 am

    The thread isn't about weight limits. It's about item use restriction. Reread the original post.

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:
    I am with the OPers idea, allow unlimited items to be carried, but equip menu can only be altered on bonfires. Its the most balanced option that retains the benefits of both choices. You get the tactical decision making of only being able to use two weapon slots per area, but you get the convenience of not having to worry about dropping and rearranging gear held in storage. It is the perfect compromise.



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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Juutas on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:45 am

    I just don't see why this should be forced to everyone? those who don't want to carry 1000 weapons, just simply don't do it and dump all your weapons to BB (or something similar hopefully in the sequel). Let others carry as much stuff as they possibly want, shouldn't be any harm to your experience.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:50 am

    Same argument goes for easy mode.



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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by The Letter X on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:09 am

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:Same argument goes for easy mode.



    The argument can be made that easy mode defeats the purpose of Dark Souls. Carrying a certain number of weapons isn't quite as big as that.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm

    Nuh-uh :x

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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by The Letter X on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:14 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:Nuh-uh :x

    *Looks at avatar*

    Can't argue with that. Shrug


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:49 pm

    Im really starting to like the idea of an easy mode more and more in DkS2.
    As long as once you choose your difficulty at the start. That difficulty would then be locked to that character and could not be changed again. That way all of the people that want there easy mode can all play together and then leave me alone. Then you will never run into anyone online that isnt in your difficulty setting.
    It might help with lag if they put each difficulty in its own server. Im not exactly sure on that one but, whos knows, easy mode may help the players that repect the souls series for how its meant to be played.
    Thoughts?


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by samster628 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:55 am

    JUST USE YOUR FLIPPIN' BOTTOMLESS BOX. Also switching to suit the situation is good just make sure that is you see an enemy the attack you. Ooh a pyromancer ill just put on some lighter armor and ... ya get killed before you can.
    Also i HATE playing games where i have to choose what to carry. especially since there is no place to store your equipment (bar said bottomless box) and you lose your stuff FOREVER.
    And if anyone suggests houses on DS2 they should be shot.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:36 am

    I love how this whole argument is kinda null and void..

    I mean on any given build, lets say a 'quality' build (since 40/40 doesn't really work for sl100 arena):

    http://mmdks.com/1dhi

    There I've got 4 equips. One shield (fairly sizable), a giant sword, and even more ridiculously sized spear and lastly a nice, quite lengthy dagger.

    That right there is your problem. Being able to equip and manageably use all 4 of those weapons is inherently ridiculous. I think carrying 9002 extra weapons is only an extension of this, as due to the equip system it simply doesn't matter any more.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:34 am

    Serious_Much wrote:I love how this whole argument is kinda null and void..

    I mean on any given build, lets say a 'quality' build (since 40/40 doesn't really work for sl100 arena):

    http://mmdks.com/1dhi

    There I've got 4 equips. One shield (fairly sizable), a giant sword, and even more ridiculously sized spear and lastly a nice, quite lengthy dagger.

    That right there is your problem. Being able to equip and manageably use all 4 of those weapons is inherently ridiculous. I think carrying 9002 extra weapons is only an extension of this, as due to the equip system it simply doesn't matter any more.

    The guys from 300 had all but 1 of those and they walked around in their underwear.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:06 am

    300 is a pretty bad example of realism and balanced. The most obvious is that there weren't only three hundred Spartans in that conflict. Here's the Wikipedia page on the Battle of Thermopylae. Read the very last sentence in the second paragraph.
    In regards to the character equipping all that, realize that FORTY ENDURANCE is well beyond what is humany possible without being bolstered by magic. The highest stat anyone comes into Lordran with (before he or she has his or her own soul grow stronger by absorbing other souls) is 15 or 16. A parameter in the forties is godly-and by that point, the player actually is slaying gods or stronger.
    On the other hand, in regards to actually carrying that, regardless of weight, there's the question of volume, and carrying so many weapons is potentially the same in terms of size as carrying around a house. Regardless of how strong the Chosen Undead is, the sheer size of that collection of objects is impractical even for someone with fifty strength and endurance. It's the equivalent of Hercules always carrying around a bag with fifty greatswords. Yes, he has the superhuman physical strength to do so; that also means he has to carry a bag ten feet wide over his shoulder, which, at the very least, will make walking through doorways much harder.
    And there is the game mechanics to consider. The infinite inventory takes away from the game forcing players to choose his or her gear which is part of the game. Equipment burden is already part of that. Many pvpers prefer certain level ranges because it requires players to focus in one or two things, instead of being an ace of all trades.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by steveswede on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:19 am

    I've only read the first page but it's enough for me to make up my mind on it.

    Limiting weapon swap outs to bonfires, bad idea as you would stop people from trying out weapons and armour they find in the game. Also the argument about it ruins the point of preparation falls flat due to there being no in game pause.

    Weight limit as I've said before in other threads is a bad idea. Dark Souls isn't a loot focused RPG so there's no benefit here. Demon's Souls proved that with items being lost till next playthrough. I've restarted playthroughs because I wasn't careful about weight limit and lost the dragon bone smasher a few times, imagine how a new player would feel losing stuff they can no longer get later.
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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:03 pm

    I think that has more to do with implementing the weight limit and planning VERY BADLY. With where the weight of gear was distributed combined with the exact weights, almost everyone was bound to come across gear that he or she couldn't carry and would lose as it was set up. That's not a problem with the system; that was a problem with how it was used, meaning where those items were placed, how much they weighed and that they were placed together.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by steveswede on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:20 pm

    You forget that when you co op or been invaded that bonfires become inactive so even if heavy items were placed near bonfires doesn't guarantee that you won't lose them. The removal of the weight limit means that this will never happen and that's more important than this nit pick for realism. Also weight limit was tied to stamina in Demon's Souls so low stamina players would get a huge disadvantage and there would also be less incentive for you to roll play as a tank build.

    EDIT:

    The only real way around this is to stop dropped items from disappearing yet after two games I assume From doesn't want to do that. You've would also have the issue of other players stealing stuff you drop.
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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:35 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:I love how this whole argument is kinda null and void..

    I mean on any given build, lets say a 'quality' build (since 40/40 doesn't really work for sl100 arena):

    http://mmdks.com/1dhi

    There I've got 4 equips. One shield (fairly sizable), a giant sword, and even more ridiculously sized spear and lastly a nice, quite lengthy dagger.

    That right there is your problem. Being able to equip and manageably use all 4 of those weapons is inherently ridiculous. I think carrying 9002 extra weapons is only an extension of this, as due to the equip system it simply doesn't matter any more.

    The guys from 300 had all but 1 of those and they walked around in their underwear.


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    You're missing the point. There's nowhere for you to carry something the size of a GLGS and especially a spear taller than you yourself..

    I was gonna use the pike, but weight etc. The whole point is you can't carry the larger weapons becuase you're not physcally big enough..

    Also thats an example build i threw together in 30 seconds lol, chill out your min/max sense silly


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:27 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:You're missing the point. There's nowhere for you to carry something the size of a GLGS and especially a spear taller than you yourself..

    I was gonna use the pike, but weight etc. The whole point is you can't carry the larger weapons becuase you're not physcally big enough..

    Also thats an example build i threw together in 30 seconds lol, chill out your min/max sense silly

    Min/Max? Black Sorcerer Gauntlets are just awesome. Never wear beige when you can wear black is clearly the first rule of optimization.

    And the argument isn't necessarily about realism; as has been said before, it could add another dimension of depth. The next boss is weak to pierce weapons, but the mobs are nigh-immune. So I need a slashing and a piercing weapon, but that means I can't take my bow, or I have to choose between high-stability shield vs magic block shield.
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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:40 pm

    I was more trying to state this whole argument is sorta pointless. The whole debate over carrying hundreds of weapons is pointless considering just carrying our equip slots and armour would be hard enough


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by steveswede on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 pm

    I think what we need are baby carts to carry our swag.

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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:20 pm

    I could see it working either way.
    I wouldn't mind it staying exactly the same as it is in DkS, but I could see it being cool to only have 4 weapons at a time and to use the bonfire to switch between all the weapons you've acquired throughout the game.
    If so, I would like to actually see those weapons sheathed and on your person. It would be nice to see the weapons you have equipped on your character.
    Now if the series was still in Miyazaki's control then it would probably stay as is, because that's how a Dark Soul's game is, but due to fact that there's a new director, I could definitely see some changes like that implemented into the next Souls game for sure.
    IMO since there is a new director and that the series is going to change it's direction in certain areas, I wouldn't mind seeing a change like this if done right.


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    Re: I still say we should not be carrying 9002 weapons at a time...

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:32 pm

    Just reducing it to four slots is limiting in a way that can't scale with stats, though, and some builds depend on multiple weapons and are even realistic with them. And on not being able to pick up gear-what if the player can always send items to his or her bottomless box and only withdraw at checkpoints? (bonfires or whatever replaces them) That way item burden can be added in, adding realism and a need for preparation and thinking, and not have the danger of losing heavy items.


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