Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

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    Scudman_Slayer
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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:27 am

    REAPER glad you made it into this forum man!


    i completely agree with you by the way i mean high level is not as bland and boring as some people say

    but i agree that some people that go high level use those build just to win where i use them to have some fun in both PVP and in PVE

    its not gonna be the same as i said somewhere in my posts here you're never gonna meet someone with exactly the same equipment as you neither the same stuff you have meaning there is always variety even if the build are pretty much the same you'll never know what your opponent is capable of doing






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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Eliteknight on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:37 am

    Reaperfan, I'm a huge fan of your posts. I only lurked on the other forums so you don't know me, but once again you nailed it square on the nose.

    There is going to be a certain level of variance between characters in what stat they decide to level if the bracket was higher. Getting into full Havels would be the smart thing to have happen first, its just the best investment for soul levels. While some people may hang on to their sorceries and others may level faith first to keep miracles they have grown used to using, the higher and higher you go the worse the homogenization between characters gets. Eventually you will max out intelligence and be forced to dump points into a new damage stat eventually that damage stat will also cap and so on and so forth. With everything at 99 2 different characters have no soul anymore.

    Also I don't mean to totally discredit Scudman's account of high level pvp. Human nature is human nature and all that. Its just that in an intellectual discussion, I can't take anecdotes into consideration if the numbers say different.

    I think Scud is a good guy, I don't want to come off as angry. This is not an argument, just a heated debate between passionate players having a disagreement.


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:41 am

    there is no point in getting any stat to 99 because if oyu waste on int after 50 you will not get any magic damage boost anymore

    on endurance if you get it to 99 you will be wasting all those points oyu could've used to make other stats go to 50 or so so yeah

    you will be bale to use havel's sure but you will be cut short by STR DEX and VIT meaning you can only get VIT and STR to 50 for example however oyu won't be able to use the weapon (or at least a few) due to the DEX requirements too


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:45 am

    @Scudman_Slayer: I've been here a while actually, but I've been getting really tired with work for some reason and have had a hard time getting my thoughts together to actually post anything for a few days (I think I'm either starting to get sick with one of those bugs that goes around during wintertime or I'm starting to get sleep deprived since I've had some kind of mild insomnia recently) :|

    But yes, the biggest misconception I get from the back-and-forths on this topic is that when someone says "all high level builds are the same" they actually very rarely mean it in an "every build is Copy-Pasted onto every player" and more in just the broad sense that everyone has the same options available to them at high levels. Nobody can utilize every one of the options at once, but there will be universal similarities between characters that don't exist at the 120 cap such as everyone having spells because high level builds can afford the attunement investment while not all 120 builds can. Whether this kind of difference expands your PvP experience or stagnates it is all a matter of personal preference, but there is nothing inherently wrong with either.


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:49 am

    Damn man sleep deprivation is nasty you hope you get better soon we need your awesome posts that can clear stuff up


    for me it expands because for me there is not insta-kill on high level pvp everyone has a chance pretty much which is good in my book
    thats my personal taste so yeah


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Eliteknight on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:59 am

    Havel's full set weighs 50 units. You can use that inside the 50% limit with only 60 endurance with 10 pounds to spare for your weapon if you are using ring of favor and protection. So the point where havel's armor becomes the only thing you use if you have endurance at 40 with a SL 120 build is very close to 140.

    20-30 more soul levels depending on weapon and we are all using the same armor. In theory,

    Assuming I am looking at my Str/faith build that has faith at 50 for DMB buff and enough str for one handed grant (34) with Vit/End both at 40 ending up at sl 125. In 20 soul levels I am stuck with one armor choice. I won't math out every popular pvp build, but there just aren't any stats even close to better than endurance for those 20 soul levels. Not even at Slvl 200 yet an already I don't like how this looks on paper. :/

    Once in havels armor I guess Vitality/more damege stats becomes the question. If I want the most out of the DMB buff to continue the builds theme as long as I can those points to into str to scale my weapons.

    I can't see the first 20 soul levels being used on anything else besides endurance for any of the most viable builds. I'm not doing all the math, but I just don't see it. A CMG build would follow very similar logic to mine and raise either thier str or dex stat and end up in the same armor as me with whatever is scaling best for them.

    I just don't see it.


    Last edited by Eliteknight on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:06 am

    yes in theory but there are a few who will wear the armor that they want to
    at least i will because im not playing to win all the time


    (believe it or not elite knight armor has more defense when axed out than havel'sarmor)


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Eliteknight on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:17 am

    Poise>every other stat on the armor piece.

    Havels set has more than enough poise to make up for the few less points of physical defense it may lack.

    I will say this, higher level pvp could be loads of fun for people who are largely just in it for the fun of things, but people who want to fine tune every point to seriously pvp get the short end of the stick in terms of realistic choice a lot sooner than you would think.

    At Slvl 120 there are many optimal builds to chose from because with that cap you are forced to pick one main damage stat and still have enough health/endurance for armor. Casting specs have to balance their damage stat and attunement. Hybrid/weapon buff builds have to carefully examine every single point, we don't have many to spare. Need a physical damage stat, buff damage stat and attunement that is not a lot of leftover space.

    The higher level it gets the closer optimal builds blur into each other. The smart choices cause you to lose identity as soon as soul level 150ish.


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:22 am

    while i see your point there is armors that have more poise than havels like smough's and i think a few people may want to use that instead of havels bud however they won't be able to stay on light movement if they have a heavy weapon

    as for havel's having 50 max equip burden the whole set you will still get the shortcomming from the equip burden of your other items and most havel's out there like using heavy weapons meaning they will get medium movement most of the time due to their weapons adding extra weight


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    Re: Explanation to SL Cap for PvP

    Post by Eliteknight on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:28 am

    Smough's set is 45 units to 91 poise where havel's is 50 units to 111 poise.

    Smough's just barely doesn't cut it. Even is it was a viable alternative, its even uglier than Havel's T_T

    Also factoring in a heavy weapon you could probably still fit into it all under 50% burden before soul level 200. Let me check.

    70 endurance plus the ring is enough for full havel's and a 16 pound weapon. Achieved at soul level 155

    80 endurance plus the ring is enough for full havel's and a 22 pound weapon. Achieved at soul level 165

    22 pound weapon The heaviest weapon in the game is only 24 pounds. Shortly after 165(around 1 or 2 more soul levels I think would be all it would take) Havel's and the heavyest weapon in the game for heavy weapon users is usable in full havels. Do you see how fast that was? A heavy weapon build is locked into one armor set before soul level 170. In theory.


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