How to go about making a caster

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    Animaaal
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    How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:38 pm

    Tired of the same ol' same ol'??? sad

    Want to try something new? waiting

    Try a caster! cheers

    It's fun, unique, and requires and completely different playstyle than you're used to. However, there are some things to consider before venturing into this. The following are basic principles one should contemplate before thinking about stats, armor, etcetcetc.




    Casting time


    First, read the wiki's description of dexterity and how it relates.

    Secondly, read this old thread: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Now just to reiterate, the maximum benefits you can possibly gain are:

    -Decrease in casting time for pyros can be between 20-27%
    (Some pyros are unaffected)

    -Decrease in casting time for sorceries can be between 9-22%
    (The wiki states between 8-10%. After reading the link I provided, you'll see this is up for debate and the wiki is probably outdated.)

    -Miracles are largely unaffected, but some do have small to moderate gains such as the lightning spear miracles. iGBx has a youtube of those specifically.

    Okay, so you get it right? I thought I did too. There is something largely disregarded after reviewing these principles. I was guilty of this myself at first...

    Are you actually going to use any castings that require a decrease in casting times? It would seem like a mechanic you would naturally want to exploit for obvious reasons. However, without understanding what your combos are going to be, you cannot accurately decide if it is right for your build.

    For instance...

    If you want to use Chaos Fireball then increasing your dexterity would seem like a wise choice. However, how will you be setting it up? Is that the only spell you will use to take advantage of this aspect?

    There are plenty of "quick casts" available in this game. I had to break from the frame of mind that "I have a dex build so I should take advantage of pyro" mentality. Utilizing dexterity in this regard for the sole purpose of one casting, in most cases, is a bad idea.

    Conclusion: Decide how you want to combo, then decide if dexterity is right for you.




    Attacking with the “directional pad”


    How would you play if you had to push up on the directional pad every time you wanted to switch from an R1 attack to a R2 attack with the Balder Side Sword? That is in essence what you are doing.

    Furthermore, how would you change your playstyle if not executing this correctly would cause you to do the “scratch your head” emote?

    What is displayed in your attunement slot during battle is all you have to go on. It is frustratingly hard to get used to at first. You will find yourself attuning your castings in a specific order to minimize the number of times you have to push up on the d-pad while in the heat of battle. You’ll also find yourself attuning multiple castings in order to further minimize the number of times you have to push up on the d-pad in order to get “back to the start”.

    Not recognizing this as one of your biggest hurdles will be one of your biggest mistakes.

    I didn’t realize this until I began to have a relative amount of success, then it became apparent that this was my biggest challenge. As compared to getting backstabbed, not backstabbing, what armor to wear, etcetcetc.




    Playing without backstabs


    You have no backstabs. Your weapons are: a talisman, a pyro hand, and a catalyst. You do not have to use all three, but they are the only items available in the game to cast with.

    You should develop some sort of niche to try and compensate. For example:

    -High health and defenses.
    This can give you some cushion to absorb a backstab, maybe two and still not lose your momentum.

    -Dead angling WoG.
    Some might say its cheap, but you have no backstabs. In this case, I would believe it is an acceptable playstyle.

    -The DWGR.
    Using this ring will allow you to exploit i-frames and to slightly cover more ground when rolling. Depending on your playstyle, it can become invaluable.

    -Maximum damage.
    Using items like the BDCR, Crown of Dusk, Cot Darksun, TinCrystal Catalyst, and the Manus Catalyst are ways to try and win the dps race so to speak.

    These are just examples.




    In conclusion


    After considering the aforementioned, you can now begin to decide how you want to murder. twisted

    I promise you, it is an extremely fun and satisfying way to play. Is it extremely competitive? I'd say no. Only because not having a mechanic available to you that is of extreme importance when considering Dark Souls playstyles is an obvious hurdle.

    Can it be viable? Most definitely. The mere uniqueness of this playstyle will cause you to gain victories over seasoned vets at times. But only because of the shock value. I'd wager to say that if you played your buddy, "the seasoned vet", after awhile he'd probably exploit your weaknesses and eventually gain an edge.

    I am convinced however, that more skilled players than myself have a chance of making this playstyle extremely competitive, probably more so than I could hope to.

    Here are some more helpful links and discussions:


    Pure Caster - Pure caster PvP (video) - Page 2
    (The video is on page 1, first post)

    Spell Combos

    Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Insanity Mage Build




    Last edited by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:32 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : shpeling/spacing/grammer)
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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Infighter on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm

    What a coincidence I just started my 1st full caster build, this will help! tyvm


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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:32 pm

    Infighter wrote:What a coincidence I just started my 1st full caster build, this will help! tyvm

    Bow

    Most of my knowledge regarding this has only been gained through reading various wikis and in game practice. I'd like to say I figured most of this out on my own, but I'm merely recycling a lot of things I've read over the past year or so.

    Good Luck!...and...

    The way of the caster...
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    :weap-chaos: pyro :weap-enchanted: sorcery :weap-divine: miracle

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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:12 pm

    I think the caster should have a rapier or a dagger for those BS fishers. It can also be very useful as a lure punish, since most players will try to bs you while you are casting spells, if you counter bs quick enough you might bs them instead. The rapier/dagger is useful for finishing off because when their HP gets very low most will dodge spam all your spells.


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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:25 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:I think the caster should have a rapier or a dagger for those BS fishers. It can also be very useful as a lure punish, since most players will try to bs you while you are casting spells, if you counter bs quick enough you might bs them instead. The rapier/dagger is useful for finishing off because when their HP gets very low most will dodge spam all your spells.

    ^^^The essence of veteran wisdom.

    This point of view is hard to argue with.

    The only thing I can say is it is not a pure caster.

    Once you give in to the concept, the only thing you can do is its sort of like crossing your arms, falling backwards off the ledge, and having faith something will catch you from falling.

    I have developed ways to avoid backstabs, but I have yet find any combo, technique, or specific playstyle that is as effective as the backstab itself.

    I do believe however, that not having backstabs can approximately be 75-85% compensated for.
    Its the other 15-25% thats the problem and will give you nightmares. :cry:


    Last edited by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:35 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : grammer/structure/shpeling)
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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:36 am

    "pure caster" isn't a good idea. Its to easy for an enemy to attune 1 spell (gmb, flash sweat, vos) and render your build completely useless, and having the opposite shield on hand (eg the black knight shield if you cast gmb) is an almost foolproof method of preventing a nasty surprise from a mage or priest with secondary pyromancy.

    I dissagree that there isn't a combo/technique thats as effective. Deadangle wog+db can and will kill anybody not using gmb, and its really easy to hit with if one isn't stupid enoughto spam. (btw, iron flesh andthe havels shield r2 do to bsing what gmb and flash sweat do to magic)


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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:13 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:...Its to easy for an enemy to attune 1 spell (gmb, flash sweat, vos) and render your build completely useless, and having the opposite shield on hand (eg the black knight shield if you cast gmb) is an almost foolproof method of preventing a nasty surprise from a mage or priest with secondary pyromancy...

    True. Someone casts VoS….you run and wait. Chances of someone having Flash Sweat and GMB attuned at the same time are slim however, and I think there’s a much better chance of someone quick swapping to Dragon Crest Shield, not Black Knight. But minor details…..minor details……its the price we pay. You're absolutely right.

    Forum Pirate wrote:...I disagree that there isn't a combo/technique thats as effective. Deadangle wog+db can and will kill anybody not using gmb, and its really easy to hit with if one isn't stupid enoughto spam. (btw, iron flesh andthe havels shield r2 do to bsing what gmb and flash sweat do to magic)...

    Thank you for the additions. I still don’t see those as being as effective. They are certainly not as cost effective considering there must be a stat investment. WoG is pretty easy to roll through, and to backstab, one needs only to equip a weapon…any weapon. I do think pivot casting Dark Bead is effective, but no its not as effective as a backstab imo. Make a caster, play without backstabs and I’m sure you will to.

    And you can still be backstabbed with Iron Flesh btw, I’m pretty sure you can still be backstabbed with Havel’s R2 as well, not sure what you were referring to. If you're talking about damage mitigation, its a risky bet with Iron Flesh (lightning weakness) and Havel's R2 has nothing to do with damage reduction I believe, only poise bonus.

    Forum Pirate wrote:..."pure caster" isn't a good idea...

    Join our club?!?!?! :?: :?: :?: twisted

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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 20, 2013 9:02 pm

    *bump

    Seen a lot of new accounts lately, figured this might be helpful, or give some people something new to consider.
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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Montante on Thu May 23, 2013 2:23 pm

    I love playing as a pure sorcerer caster. I should get around to recording some bouts when I get back to playing again.

    My usual refined build is as thus: The Witch

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    Re: How to go about making a caster

    Post by Animaaal on Thu May 23, 2013 4:58 pm

    Montante wrote:I love playing as a pure sorcerer caster. I should get around to recording some bouts when I get back to playing again.

    My usual refined build is as thus: The Witch

    Man, I'm so glad you posted here. Your work on dexterity effecting sorceries is top-notch, I mean really class A stuff.

    That thread has been instrumental in giving advice, optimizing my builds, and just all around superawesome knowledge.

    You receive my thanks. I found that thread to be very, VERY helpful. Prostration

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