*Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

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    *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:47 pm

    Hello everyone, I've returned from my life's actions in partial dismay due to my body deciding that its fun to feel like you've been set on fire.

    Anyways, onto the primary reason for this post, the title is something posted by Miyazaki on twitter. The reason I bring this up, is because I know the answer to his question.

    The Gods left because the flame was dying, and those wishing to ressurect the flame simply drove themselves into madness. Those who saw this, left, and one of those who left was Gwynevere.

    Ring of the Sun Princess: This ring is granted to those who enter a
    Covenant with Gwynevere, daughter of Lord Gywn
    and the Princess of Sunlight. This slightly
    warm ring boosts the synergy of miracles.

    The Princess of Sunlight Gwynevere left
    Anor Londo along many other deities,
    and later became wife to Flame God Flann.


    The gods that stayed in Lordran went insane or were never sane in the first place. The gods who left however, that is a story we do not know...yet.

    I feel that this post by Miyazaki is simply stating that the next game will show us the remaining gods from Lordran, meaning that this game might be taking place after the rekindling of the first flame, but possibly before the Chosen Undead defeated Gwyn.

    Alongside this, I feel that this might also mean that we may see Chester in some format in Dark Souls 2. The reason to my beliefs is because of the mask he dons with his outfit, and because if he somehow acquired a pendant or something, then Manus could have ripped him through the portal as well if he were to say, travel to Lordran to find more treasures of its kind.

    These are all theories of course, but I did answer Miyazaki's question on why the gods left. Lets get those brains running now and see where we can lead off of this.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:57 pm

    sad I think the possible spoilers part is putting people off from reading this.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:07 pm

    I just didn't see it the first time around, that's why I didn't read it but it's interesting stuff, no doubt, Spectre. silly

    BTW, do you have any ideas about the identity of the "dark beast who assaulted Astora?"

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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by tinypantha on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:37 am

    I didnt post on here bc i truthfully had absolutly no idea how to contribute... But like pendant said: identity?


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:56 am

    Possibly to extend their own life time. I believe that the darkness for the gods can make them mortal and take away their powers and abilities over others. They needed to flee to other areas in order for them to sustain their existence as Gods. Hence one of the ways for Gwynevere to continue to be noticed as a god was to marry Flann, who is a very interesting figure in the lore.

    Another reason is because the distortion of time in Lordran is slowly driving everything insane, and when Gwyn may have been the first to hollow out from the insanity the Gods left in fear that they would become just like him. It is possible that this distortion is only happening in Lordran and because of contact with other Gods like Flann they new they would be safer if they had just left.

    @Pendant
    I have an idea that the "Dark Beast" that was threatening Astora could have been another celestial being like Manus that came from another part of the Abyss.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:07 am

    GrinTwist wrote:@Pendant
    I have an idea that the "Dark Beast" that was threatening Astora could have been another celestial being like Manus that came from another part of the Abyss.

    I just wanna know something. There's a description in a ring and, as far as I know, that's it. No one from Astora, not Oscar, not Andre, not Reah, no one makes any mention of this "assault" - sounds strange to me.

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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:15 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    GrinTwist wrote:@Pendant
    I have an idea that the "Dark Beast" that was threatening Astora could have been another celestial being like Manus that came from another part of the Abyss.

    I just wanna know something. There's a description in a ring and, as far as I know, that's it. No one from Astora, not Oscar, not Andre, not Reah, no one makes any mention of this "assault" - sounds strange to me.

    Yeah I find that incredibly odd, especially if that beast had assaulted Astora and then it was locked away in a ring. Not to mention that ring was found in the depths of all places, why in all of Lordran would such a powerful ring be found in down there were anyone that has knowledge of how to kill a basilisk could find it?

    Part of me thinks it is a reference to something, like King Jeremiah was a reference to "The King in Yellow".


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:30 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    GrinTwist wrote:@Pendant
    I have an idea that the "Dark Beast" that was threatening Astora could have been another celestial being like Manus that came from another part of the Abyss.

    I just wanna know something. There's a description in a ring and, as far as I know, that's it. No one from Astora, not Oscar, not Andre, not Reah, no one makes any mention of this "assault" - sounds strange to me.
    My only two ideas are A: the event happened so long ago perhaps before Gwyn that it was forgotten from everyone. B: The people who lived through the attack knew of the threat that such a ring posed and ensured that how the ring was made was destroyed and that the ring would never be found and no one would want to find it.
    Though I now am curious of its ability to take life, can be connected to the humanity stealing power of darkwraiths and Pricilla's own power. Without much thought the beast could be from the abyss as raw life stealing power.
    As for the gods the only thing I can think of them leaving has to with faith and worship. Do you think a god drives his power from those who worship him, ensuring immortality. I'm not skilled with this but perhaps Gwyn became a god while a mortal and through him his children ascended to gods through him, power and worship, not by being born as gods. If people were forgetting the gods of Anor Londo it makes sense for them to leave and find ways to be worshipped and remain in power.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Gambs_the_Grey on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:56 am

    The dark beast probably smashed up the parish and the room above andre.
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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:04 pm

    I think that 'dark beast' in Astora was a monster that ransacked it in antiquity. This is akin to coming into America today and expecting everyone to still be freaking out over the Boston Tea Party as if it happened yesterday. There may be a major time gap between when these characters were born and lived and when that creature attacked Astora.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by DE5PA1R on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:42 pm

    Gods leaving: I brought Miyazaki's tweet up in one of my recent vids, and is one of the reasons I think DkS2 will revolve around the relationship between Astora and Anor Londo. We know Astora is the seat of human nobility, and historically nobility was justified by saying the nobles execute the will of the gods, or are decedents of the gods themselves.

    But we're not sure about the reason the gods left Anor Londo. I think the going theory is that about 1k years before DkS, everyone realized the flames would fade. So, the Witch of Izalith attempted to re-create the First Flame but failed. After a fight against the Demons, Gwyn decided to sacrifice himself and kindle the flame to stave off the darkness a while longer. With the Lord of Sunlight gone, perhaps the sun set over Anor Londo. Perhaps Duke Seath went mad (or already was), and nobody was around to keep him in check. Maybe without a king or prince, the citizens began to rebel. Or, Anor Londo simply began to fade in terms of power, prestige, and riches.

    Dark Beast: Too much speculation to really make a call. I assume it's probably just some monster in Astora's distant past. That's an interesting point about the relationship between Life Drain and the ring, though Sanctus also regenerates the life of the user.

    We could hop on the tin-foil-hat speculation train and combine these: The Dark Beast was actually a fallen god from Anor Londo, who went mad and/or decided to kill a bunch of Astorans. Before DkS maybe an Undead Astoran traveled to Lordran in pilgrimage (as they are wont to do), and nearly succeeded in killing Gwyn. That would certainly warrant some vengeance. Or maybe they were just crazy.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:22 pm

    I really wish I could help you out there Pendant, but its been so long since I read into that ring that I have forgotten all findings I had with it. I believe something else was discovered with it, one of them brought around the idea that an Astoran, Solaire, was located at the depths, and he maybe left it there in his travels, implying he may have been the one to kill the beast, or perhaps be part of a bloodline that killed it, explaining moreso on how much of a badass he is. He was the only Astoran you meet in the depths, so it could be very much his.


    I like these theories on the gods leaving. All of them have some sort of validity. I feel that we need to know more about Gwyn to find more answers though. His sanity seems to be the key element in what happened to the gods.

    Speaking of which, what else do we know about Flann? I've never heard anything else about him besides the fact that he is husband to Gwynevere and the god of fire.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by GrinTwist on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:24 am

    Chaos Spectre wrote:

    Speaking of which, what else do we know about Flann? I've never heard anything else about him besides the fact that he is husband to Gwynevere and the god of fire.


    It's a bit of a mystery Flann is a lot like the Dark Beast in a way, we know little to nothing about them. Their only presence within the game is in a single item description.

    He most likely is a God that governs over a different land rather than Lordran. We can only assume that he, like the rest of the Gods, fought in the war against the dragons to gain his position as a God. I also find it incredibly odd that since Flann is the god of fire he should be able to help out quite a bit as far as kindling the flame goes.


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    Re: *Possible Spoilers* Before the darkness. What would make the gods leave? #darksouls2

    Post by samster628 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:37 am

    DE5PA1R wrote:Gods leaving: I brought Miyazaki's tweet up in one of my recent vids, and is one of the reasons I think DkS2 will revolve around the relationship between Astora and Anor Londo. We know Astora is the seat of human nobility, and historically nobility was justified by saying the nobles execute the will of the gods, or are decedents of the gods themselves.

    But we're not sure about the reason the gods left Anor Londo. I think the going theory is that about 1k years before DkS, everyone realized the flames would fade. So, the Witch of Izalith attempted to re-create the First Flame but failed. After a fight against the Demons, Gwyn decided to sacrifice himself and kindle the flame to stave off the darkness a while longer. With the Lord of Sunlight gone, perhaps the sun set over Anor Londo. Perhaps Duke Seath went mad (or already was), and nobody was around to keep him in check. Maybe without a king or prince, the citizens began to rebel. Or, Anor Londo simply began to fade in terms of power, prestige, and riches.

    Dark Beast: Too much speculation to really make a call. I assume it's probably just some monster in Astora's distant past. That's an interesting point about the relationship between Life Drain and the ring, though Sanctus also regenerates the life of the user.

    We could hop on the tin-foil-hat speculation train and combine these: The Dark Beast was actually a fallen god from Anor Londo, who went mad and/or decided to kill a bunch of Astorans. Before DkS maybe an Undead Astoran traveled to Lordran in pilgrimage (as they are wont to do), and nearly succeeded in killing Gwyn. That would certainly warrant some vengeance. Or maybe they were just crazy.

    A fine answer indeed and correct too in my opinion.


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