Should humanity heal you?

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    Shakie666
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    Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Shakie666 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:18 pm

    Lets be honest - humanity's (arguably) biggest use is to heal you when you can't use estus for whatever reason. Its the primary source of healing for invaders. Except... should it be? I mean, the reason you can't use estus as an invader is so the host has an advantage (which there has to be really otherwise less people would bother going human). But this is moot when the invader can heal just as well by other means. So the question is: what do you guys think about invaders healing?

    Just thought i'd add: I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with using miracles to heal. The casting time is so long, you deserve to heal if the host is incompetent enough to let you.
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    Carphil
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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Carphil on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:27 pm

    Humanity should be a rare thing in Dark Souls. The invader does not get a humanity *item* after killing a host, he gets a humanity. if that makes any sense

    What I'm trying to say is, if the invader wants to heal, he must farm anyway. and so can the host!


    Heres the deal:

    Hosts - phantoms, estus, humanity


    Invader - Mobs, humanity


    So the host has the advantage anyway. Unless invader is smart enough to bring Loyds


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Shindori on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:40 am

    lol I like to Lloyd's hosts and then heal if I need to. I'm a darkwraith. I don't play by the rules, I make them.


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by twilightwarwolf on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:43 am

    well i think so but still a humanity takes a sec to use anyway so its to me like a miricle for those who can't because it does take a sec. now hosts idk i feel they shouldnt be able to use humanity as they have estuses and miricles and possibly divine blessings which are the fastest heals


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:44 am

    I agree it's strange, but it's the way of the world. Just like the fact that bonfires heal you. Should resting at a fire really cure you of toxic?

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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Hue on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:11 am

    Divine Blessings are far better than anything else


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:48 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I agree it's strange, but it's the way of the world. Just like the fact that bonfires heal you. Should resting at a fire really cure you of toxic?
    Bonfires reset you, they dont heal you.


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:50 am

    I don't understand why Humanity heals us in the first place. I think that we should be able to heal by Estus, Divine Blessings, Mushrooms and Miracles only. I am aware that it could ruin PvP, so people will either find a way to dupe DBs and eat them like in DeS days, or they will keep crying how they can't heal etc.

    Since the game doesn't allow Estus usage for phantoms, I always assumed that phantoms shouldn't heal at all, except for Miracles. Yes, they're slow and make you vulnerable, just like they should. No problem there.

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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by sure-magicians on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:13 am

    There should be restrictions, for both hosts and invaders, to how and by what amount they can heal.

    Nothing more annoying then fighting an invader to an inch of his life only to see him run into a mob, pop a humanity, and return with full health.
    Same story with hosts chugging Estus, and even worse with phantoms around.

    I mean I drank Estus like a madman when I got invaded for the first time to be honest but once you get more 'into' the game, speaking for myself now I'd rather die and lose to an invader 10 times over then running away and drink Estus to heal myself.
    Even when the invader uses humanity...

    Needless to say I die quite a lot, but I really love the feeling when I win a fight against an invader who healed in the middle of the fight...


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by steveswede on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:49 pm

    Sentiel wrote:I don't understand why Humanity heals us in the first place.

    But that's exactly it's purpose, it heals you to human. It would be a bit daft if it didn't heal you fully if it can bring you back to human life. From a lore standpoint it makes perfect sense.

    Also in my mind the way humanity works is just fine as it is. If it didn't, people would be complaining about divine blessings and then estus healing phantoms and then heal miracles.

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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:55 pm

    It's fine imo.

    I think it would be a complete non-issue if flasks didnt heal phantoms.


    ***edit***
    I dont mind people doing it in duels either.

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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:58 pm

    Carphil wrote:


    Heres the deal:

    Hosts - phantoms, estus, humanity, higher level. Is just the host so he may not even want to PvP, IE he might be really bad at it,


    Invader - Mobs, humanity, Lower level. Is invading so he probably wants to PvP, IE he is probably decent if not good at it.



    That's the way i see it at least Shrug
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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:51 pm

    I see no problem with it. I don't heal myself either way--as host or as invader--when I'm PvPing, but if my opponent does I don't care.

    If you're the host, quit playing around and finish him off already and he won't be able to heal! silly If he's within an inch of his life and you let him get away to hide behind a mob and heal, that's more than partially your fault.

    It's my opinion that invaders shouldn't heal--get the job done or die trying, is how I see it--but there are times when some might want to. Invade gankers, kill the 2 phantoms, really want to finish off the host? Fine, go ahead and heal. I wouldn't, but I don't think it's bad at all that the option be in the game.

    To me, healing in PvP is like the Mask of the Mother: it's there, you can use it, just don't think you have any dignity if you do. (No offense to anyone who uses it, but it's my sincere opinion!)


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:38 am

    Most invaders have to farm for a while to get over 50 humanity and I'll be honest farming isn't exactly one of the most fun things to do in the game but we do it because it helps us with PVP.

    When I invade I normally have to deal with a host and a phantom as it seems co-op is only becoming more common. It's rare that I get a lone host so I see it as fair that I should be able to heal with humanity if I'm getting torn apart by the phantom's end-game gear while the host is only at the church.

    Let's not forget that if the only means for invaders to heal were to be healing with miracles that would mean we would have to put certain stats into a build that we didn't want to have to rely on faith. It would ruin SL 55 builds that are meant to invade other players.


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Sentiel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:07 am

    steveswede wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I don't understand why Humanity heals us in the first place.

    But that's exactly it's purpose, it heals you to human. It would be a bit daft if it didn't heal you fully if it can bring you back to human life. From a lore standpoint it makes perfect sense.

    Also in my mind the way humanity works is just fine as it is. If it didn't, people would be complaining about divine blessings and then estus healing phantoms and then heal miracles.
    It doesn't make you Human, it just adds one soft Humanity to your counter. It's not Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, you still need to go to Bonfire to make yourself Human.

    People will always complain, that's what we're best at.

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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:41 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    steveswede wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I don't understand why Humanity heals us in the first place.

    But that's exactly it's purpose, it heals you to human. It would be a bit daft if it didn't heal you fully if it can bring you back to human life. From a lore standpoint it makes perfect sense.

    Also in my mind the way humanity works is just fine as it is. If it didn't, people would be complaining about divine blessings and then estus healing phantoms and then heal miracles.
    It doesn't make you Human, it just adds one soft Humanity to your counter. It's not Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, you still need to go to Bonfire to make yourself Human.

    People will always complain, that's what we're best at.

    You need a humanity to become human though. I think you're being a bit too critical of it's definition due to it only working when you're at a bonfire as that's was most likely put in to balance gameplay.
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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Hue on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:09 am

    steveswede wrote:due to it only working when you're at a bonfire as that's was most likely put in to balance gameplay.

    What exactly does that balance?


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by Carphil on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:14 am

    Hachouma wrote:
    steveswede wrote:due to it only working when you're at a bonfire as that's was most likely put in to balance gameplay.

    What exactly does that balance?

    I think that what hes trying to say is, if the undead curse existed in real life, we would not have to make bonfires to become human, but just acquire humanity and use it. In game this would make it too easy.


    bonfires are the dark souls checkpoint, the balance is that you need a bonfire to do most things, its your save typewriter


    correct me if I'm wrong


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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:23 am

    Carphil wrote:
    Hachouma wrote:
    steveswede wrote:due to it only working when you're at a bonfire as that's was most likely put in to balance gameplay.

    What exactly does that balance?

    I think that what hes trying to say is, if the undead curse existed in real life, we would not have to make bonfires to become human, but just acquire humanity and use it. In game this would make it too easy.


    bonfires are the dark souls checkpoint, the balance is that you need a bonfire to do most things, its your save typewriter

    Bingo.
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    Re: Should humanity heal you?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:39 pm

    @Hachouma

    If I remember correctly, in Demon's Souls, you could use a Stone of Ephemeral Eyes at any point in the level to regain your body form. So people who needed help to fight a boss would only use it right before the fog gate. From changed this so that you could only reverse hollowing at a bonfire, most likely to avoid people doing this again. This balances the game by ensuring that, if you want co-op, you get invasions, for the whole level.


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