Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

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    Back Lot Basher
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    Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:18 pm

    I have a couple of friends that I coop this game with all the time, so we've virtually done each section 3 times, usually one right after another. I started to notice that my attack damage as a white phantom wasn't as high as when I'm the host. Last night in the painted world, when I hosted, my +15 Pharis with feather arrows did 301 damage on those engorged zombies (I shot it from the catwalk overlooking the dark ember courtyard). When my friend summoned me to his game, I took the exact same enemy out from the same vantage point, with the same weapon, and only got 228. This isn't the first time I noticed getting less damage with the exact same weapon. Is that a known mechanic, that your white phantom damage is slightly nerfed?
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:26 pm

    Never noticed any damage reduction as a phantom, intresting find.

    Not saying your wrong as im not sure. But could the 300 damage attack have been a critical hit? Maybe you hit him just as he was attacking? This might explain the different damage lvls.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:27 pm

    I assume none of you are on NG+? Personally I have never noticed this, but it is interesting a difference that small doesnt really lend itself to NG+ but, just to be certain.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:43 pm

    No, we were all on NG (our progress is generally the same, as we usually coop together). Until last night, my observations had mostly been anecdotal, but I never seemed to think to compare the numbers. But then when I took the exact same shot from the same point in back to back games (we were mostly just fast running the Painted World to get a few items), I made note of the damage.

    As far as the critical, I can't be 100% sure. It's possible that it was firing off a fire blast at us at the moment of one of my shots, but not the other. We'll try this again (I left Priscilla alive) and see if the results are the same.

    I only bring this up because I remember Demon's Souls having that Friend ring that gave you a boost to your attack as a blue, and wondered if they had built in some variation on that in Dark.
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:53 pm

    as far as I can tell there is no friend or foe ring imitator, but defenitly let us know what you find out, the difference seems marginal but is is an interesting obersvation as I already said.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Uparkaam on Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:02 pm

    Maybe the enemy was staggered when you shot it as a host. Enemies take more damage when they are staggered.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Yarxov on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:06 pm

    I noticed this too, especially with bosses (try to solo a boss, then try it with help, it's very easy to tell). I did have a moment where I would hit the Painted world hallows for a smaller amount with a phantom than without.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by CrescentCrux on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:58 am

    Here is my question to you; what were your levels?

    I have noticed this myself, both as going up and down as a phantom while in Co-op modes. I think the difficulty does go up and down based on both Level and stats you upgrade, thus you did less damage in his world due to hitting that level mark. There is also the thought of a Gravelord sign might have poped up in there.


    Edit Also- When you do Co-op the world does get harder; both bosses and local enemies.

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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by User on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:13 am

    I have noticed this as well. I find I take more damage as a Phantom than a Human at times as well, and I see the difference In Tomb of Giants. I also realized that phantoms do a little less damage as well than the original, as a noticed me and my friend fighting the O & S Boss in Anor Londo, and I did less damage as a Phantom than I did before. Odd. I guess it make sense, since the Human has more of a risk than Phantoms if they Die.

    Curses are also more vulnerable to phantoms as well, I have noticed. Have died more times against Seath and the Vasalisks as a Phantom than a Human, as I get cursed faster at times.
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:16 pm

    I tried it again, and the results were the same as before. I have no idea if there's some intangible factor at work that I'm not aware of. My level is 102, and didn't change between sessions. Like Yarxov said, it seems really noticible on bosses. That was when I first started to suspect my attack power as a phantom was gimped. Because three of us were often taking on the same boss three times in quick succession, you notice things like this. One of my friends commented that it almost seems like it takes more effort to bring down a boss when we have a full group.
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by aceluby on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:40 pm

    You should try w/ a different weapon than a bow. A bow has too many variables that can be changed by just being a single step off, hitting them in different locations, or hitting them while they are doing different animations.


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by lextune on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:41 pm

    I would not be surprised. I think it is well established that Bosses get a buff with every phantom summoned. Why wouldn't other enemies be the same....?


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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by User on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:44 pm

    Meh. I notice against the Iron Golem. Solo, I deplete a 7th of his health with one hit in NG+. As a Phantom, lesser than that. Of course it doesn't matter. One hit to each foot, which consists of about 1050 damage, that giant falls down hard.
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:51 pm

    aceluby wrote:You should try w/ a different weapon than a bow. A bow has too many variables that can be changed by just being a single step off, hitting them in different locations, or hitting them while they are doing different animations.

    That's a good point. Distance is a factor with bows. Although I have to think the shots were pretty close in range, as I had the parapet as a marker point and the engorged zombie was walking the same straight path toward the stairs. But still, it would be interesting to try it with a sword on the same enemies. Perhaps someplace like Anor Londo with the silver knights.
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by AeroSigma on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:00 pm

    lextune wrote:I would not be surprised. I think it is well established that Bosses get a buff with every phantom summoned. Why wouldn't other enemies be the same....?

    This is where I went too, but there were the same amount of phantoms in both cases, just in one he's the host, and the other he's the phantom.

    This is intresting, I'd love to see more data, especially with non-bows (sorcery is usually VERY consistent for me)
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    Re: Is your attack damage nerfed somewhat as a white phantom?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:18 pm

    the engorged hollows can be head shot but the targeting is finicky maybe your first counted as a head shot and the second as a body shot, the percentages seem right...


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