Rusted Iron Ring

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    Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Gods_Twilight on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:59 pm

    This iron ring was used to shackle the guilty.
    It is terribly rusted, and faintly stained with blood.

    Those who find this strange ring to their liking will
    be pleased to find it easier to gain footing
    on poor ground such as swamps.

    Just noticed the use of the word guilty in this description today on a loading screen. I know a few people think the undead asylum is tied to Velka and from what I've seen anything referring to the guilty is generally velka's domain.

    What do you guys think? The undead asylum was previously a prison for the guilty awaiting judgement? Maybe that's why the demons are there as we know Velka doesn't just punish humans but the presence of her pardoners and followers in the painted world suggest she would also hunt gods so demons would be in the same boat I'd think.

    Could also support the crow being a servant of velka or velka herself. Any thoughts?


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by alchemydesign on Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:48 am

    Hm, I don't know about the ring, it's a puzzle to me, but I do have a theory about the demons and as to why they are there. When you start the game you can see the stray demon there trapped in large treasure room. I believe that the Stray demon was brought there to guard the treasures stripped from the undead as they hollow, as well as to keep those who haven't hollowed in line (which, I'm sure had worked pretty well up to that point). And the Big Pilgrim is just that, a pilgrim in search of a demon relative and such.
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Gods_Twilight on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 am

    Well I assumed the first demon was just a roaming demon like the taurus and capra who've just ended up where they are because they like it. The stray demon was always an oddity to me, perhaps it was just fed the corpses of hollows.


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Arkental on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:02 am

    As for the ring I never had the impression there was anything too deep connected to the "guilty" part. Merely it having once been a link in a prisoner's chain. It is odd how the ring does the very opposite of shackling you though, in fact it makes you move better through areas that would previously slow you down.

    Now the demons I imagine as having a split duty between prison guards and keeping the population of undead stable. The prisoners seem to eventually go hollow, and you'd end up with no more room for new inmates after a while. But looking at the pile of bones below the stray demon (iirc) my assumption was that the two demons are herding, smashing, guarding and eating the prisoners (probably in no particular order). And being eaten might just be permanent death for an undead, as there seems to be a state beyond hollow where you're entirely dead (judging by the corpses we find throughout the game).

    Demons in the employ of the gods is obviously not unheard of, as we have the spear poking ones in Anor Londo which I doubt would be allowed to hang around without Gwyndolin's permission. Some breeds of demons are likely sentient enough to strike a deal with the gods when it is offered as "Guard this place and eat any undeads you can get your claws on, and we will let you live" sounds better to them than "Stand still for a second so I can evaporate you with this holy lightning you abomination".

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by alchemydesign on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:28 am

    Is it bones in the stray demon arena? I've never paid much attention...for some reason I always just assumed it was gold....and that would probably explain why that room always seemed off to me...wow that's incredibly not observant on my part >_<
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:28 pm

    Are you saying that the demons are there awaiting judgment by Velka?

    I tend to go with the theory that the Undead Asylum was first used or built by cleric knights (maybe from Thorolund or Lloyd's ckeric knights?) as a way to 'house' the undead. In the intro the narrator says the undead are "corralled" to the north; maybe by the clerics? But then it is possible that the asylum was already there, and the clerics just repurposed it to use for undead. If that's the case then, it's plausible that the ring hints at that past.

    As for the demons, I've no idea. Maybe the Stray Demon is there as a 'warden'? But then who put it there? The clerics? Probably not in my opinion. It seems to me the Stray Demon was put there when the place was built, going by how it's in the basement essentially. It seems like the place was built around it maybe? But whether or not the demon was put there by Velka, I'm not sure.

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by alchemydesign on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:31 pm

    Given how weakened the floor is and the huge hole in the ceiling I believe the stray demon lives up to its name...it was simply that...a stray demon, it fell through the ceiling and through the floor, they bricked up the floor the best they could but when you fight the second one it weakens it which is why you fall through in when you return, I believe there is also rubble in the stray demons arena possibly from falling through the floor to begin with?
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:45 pm

    alchemydesign wrote:Given how weakened the floor is and the huge hole in the ceiling I believe the stray demon lives up to its name...it was simply that...a stray demon, it fell through the ceiling and through the floor, they bricked up the floor the best they could but when you fight the second one it weakens it which is why you fall through in when you return, I believe there is also rubble in the stray demons arena possibly from falling through the floor to begin with?

    Yeah that's make sense. If that's so, then I don't think the Demons at the asylum have any real 'job' there. They may have just ended up there, like you say.....a stray demon.

    Or if there is some association with Velka, then is it possible Velka could have put them there? ENB suggested in one of videos that maybe teh demons were there as a test for the 'Chosen Undead'; if he/she passes then they are brought to Firelink Shrine. But I'm not if I believe that.
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:47 pm

    Arkental wrote:As for the ring I never had the impression there was anything too deep connected to the "guilty" part. Merely it having once been a link in a prisoner's chain. It is odd how the ring does the very opposite of shackling you though, in fact it makes you move better through areas that would previously slow you down.

    I noticed this as well, it is somewhat contradictory isn't it.
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Acarnatia on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:50 pm

    Pfft, I just noticed this; the Rusted Iron Ring has an ironic description~


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:12 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Pfft, I just noticed this; the Rusted Iron Ring has an ironic description~

    lol!
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Hue on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:43 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Pfft, I just noticed this; the Rusted Iron Ring has an ironic description~
    Prostration

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Arkental on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:23 pm

    It is also worth noting that two black knights show up at the asylum after you escape it. I think someone must have dispatched them to see what was causing the commotion up there. And they arrive there before you have really done anything noteworthy (you can jump into the elevator and kill the stray demon before the gargoyles, can't you?).

    I'll admit that the crow might have been the reason for them showing up rather than the sudden death of the asylum demon. Unless I have misunderstood something the (perhaps there are more of them) asylum is a human thing and likely the responsibility of one of the nations in the area. They would surely have posted sentries that could have seen you fly off. It's still worth mentioning that the knights show up though, and that it might be connected to the asylum demon kicking the bucket, which in turn would point to them and by extension their superiors being aware of his presence.
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Acarnatia on Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:14 pm

    @Hachouma: Why so serious?


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:43 am

    Arkental wrote: It's still worth mentioning that the knights show up though, and that it might be connected to the asylum demon kicking the bucket, which in turn would point to them and by extension their superiors being aware of his presence.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not really sure the Black Knights have superiors. They were formally Gwyn's knights, who were burned when he linked the flame. Now they are, " disembodied spirits" wandering Lordran.

    But why, or how, they end up at the asylum when you return, I don't know. Perhaps something drew them there, but I don't know what.


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by alchemydesign on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:56 pm

    They hunted demons, one can assume that they were simply making their way there to begin with but you take care of em and they simply have nothing else to do there but terrorize you when/if you come back.

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Arkental on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:27 pm

    voodoomonkey616 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not really sure the Black Knights have superiors. They were formally Gwyn's knights, who were burned when he linked the flame. Now they are, " disembodied spirits" wandering Lordran.

    But why, or how, they end up at the asylum when you return, I don't know. Perhaps something drew them there, but I don't know what.

    I imagine Gwyndolin might hold some sway over them unless they've gone entirely nutters after they wandered into Gwyn's barbeque. And when I think about it, Gwyndolin would likely be keeping tabs on what goes on at the asylum as he is really interested in finding the chosen undead and prodding him onto the "right" path.

    And as mentioned, Gwyndolin does have demons in Anor Londo already.
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Acarnatia on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:46 pm

    Demons and chaos demons seem to be different. The creatures in Izalith are specifically called 'chaos demons'.


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:56 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:@Hachouma: Why so serious?

    Get your Cray-on!!! silly


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Arkental on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:02 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Demons and chaos demons seem to be different. The creatures in Izalith are specifically called 'chaos demons'.

    Good point, I'm looking at item descriptions again to see if I can find anything hinting at what exactly the difference between the two are, and perhaps what kind the ones at the Asylum happen to be.

    So far all I've got is the description of the hammer which says "Demon weapon built from the stone archtrees. Used by lesser demons at North Undead Asylum." It mentions them as "lesser" demons, which is a description also used for capra, taurus and and batwing demons. What exactly a "greater" demon is I have no idea about though.

    And the description for BoC's soul says
    Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
    of all demons. This Lord Soul was found
    at the dawn of the Age of Fire.


    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate
    the First Flame from a soul, but instead
    created a distorted being of chaos and fire.
    Its power formed a bed of life which would
    become the source of all demons, and is more
    than enough to satiate the Lordvessel.


    I'll try to go through every description of anything linked to demons tomorrow and see what I can dig up. And apologies if it sounds like I'm bickering over this, it's just a topic that makes me curious big grin

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Arkental on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:39 am

    I think I figured it out after looking through the descriptions.
    Chaos Blade and Quelaag's Furysword both refer to her as a chaos demon,
    everything else seems to be "lesser" demons. I guess Quelaag, Fair Lady, Ceaseless, possibly Centipede and Firesage as well, are the only chaos demons we run into in the game, as it likely takes an individual of great power/potential for the bed of chaos to create one.

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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by Sanhedrim on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:49 am

    Well, the bat demons in Anor Londo are referred to as chaos demons, too:

    "Carved from the bones of fellow demons. Wielded by the slim lesser
    Batwing demons. The weapons of these chaos demons wandering Anor Londo
    are different from those of other chaos demons, and are imbued with
    lightning."

    Thus speaks the Demon's Spear. I think all demons are chaos demons, it's just that the "chaos" isn't always added.

    On a side note, I think the Bed of Chaos is a fascinating creature. You see this massive, wooden monstrosity, but then it turns out that's just armor for a small bug that dies in one hit. How the mighty have fallen!
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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by voodoomonkey616 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:14 pm

    Arkental wrote:I'll try to go through every description of anything linked to demons tomorrow and see what I can dig up. And apologies if it sounds like I'm bickering over this, it's just a topic that makes me curious big grin

    I don't it think sounds like you're bickering, I love discussing this stuff happy And thanks for checking all those descriptions.

    Sanhedrim wrote: I think all demons are chaos demons, it's just that the "chaos" isn't always added.

    I think this makes sense. And the description Arkental listed of the BoC states that it's the mother of "all demons", not just chaos demons.

    But I'm still left wondering why the demons are at the asylum. Were they put there to serve a purpose (act as wardens, test the chosen undead etc.) or did they just turn up there after everything went to **** in Lordran?


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by EarthScraper on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:48 pm

    Im surprised you don't get tetanus from the damn thing.
    I thought chaos demons are related to the witch's failed attempt at making a copy of the first flame, and the lesser demons have always been there


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    Re: Rusted Iron Ring

    Post by DemonDrink on Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:32 am

    I find the second part of the rusted iron ring's item description incredibly symbolic, particularly of the chosen undead's story -(that "I remember the first time I died" trailer doesn't lie)
    :pendant:


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