Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

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    Is it relevant when considering these castings: Black Flame/Great Combustion/Fire Surge/Dark Bead

    [ 12 ]
    52% [52%] 
    [ 11 ]
    48% [48%] 

    Total Votes: 23

    Animaaal
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    Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:51 pm

    I've been trying to get some advice on an attunement build for pvp. I'm undecided about this.

    On one hand, these cast so fast, it almost seems unecessary.

    On the other hand, the fights I lose, I feel like faster castings could have came in handy.

    Anyone have an opinion on this?

    Your insight would be appreciated. Proper Bow

    ***EDIT***

    Please keep in mind I dont use a weapon with this build. It is not a spellsword, thanks again.


    Last edited by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:31 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : addition)
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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:00 pm

    I voted no. It is pointless to put points into dex to speed up an already fast spell.


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Rifter7 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:18 pm

    yeah dex helps combustion and dark bead, but doesn't effect fire surge. in particular it helps land the spell casts after kicks and turns certain trades into a hit that'll stagger instead.

    you notice the difference at 40-45 dex for those spells, tho. it's a bit of a heavy investment.


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:34 pm

    reim0027 wrote:I voted no. It is pointless to put points into dex to speed up an already fast spell.

    This, but GC/BF gets a very good boost in speed. However since it's already fast, it isn't needed. Imo the spells that really NEED the Dex are Great Fireballs, Great Lightning Spear and WDB. Sorcery doesn't need Dex, it gets a very small boost. 45 should always be the aim.


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:42 am

    reim0027 wrote:I voted no. It is pointless to put points into dex to speed up an already fast spell.

    This is almost exacty word for word what I thought to myself over and over for about a week straight as I resisted the urge to level up my sl49 attunement build. I spent about 3 weeks doing nothing but phantom work in Anor Londo, and 1/3 of the time was spent with this mentality tunneling through my mind over and over.

    ..........Then these types of scenarios were popin in here and there:


    Rifter7 wrote:yeah dex helps combustion and dark bead, but doesn't effect fire surge. in particular it helps land the spell casts after kicks and turns certain trades into a hit that'll stagger instead.

    you notice the difference at 40-45 dex for those spells, tho. it's a bit of a heavy investment.

    Thanks for the Fire Surge tip, I thought for sure it fell under the offensive castings class. The start up seems very slow. I am aware that the “rapid fire” would mostly likely be unaffected/uninfluenced, but I would figure the start up animation would speed up. I guess it is in the offensive exceptions class like the mist pyros.

    Thanks rifter


    WyrmHero wrote:..........This, but GC/BF gets a very good boost in speed. However since it's already fast, it isn't needed. Imo the spells that really NEED the Dex are Great Fireballs, Great Lightning Spear and WDB. Sorcery doesn't need Dex, it gets a very small boost. 45 should always be the aim............

    This is the logic that makes me wonder. Its not necessarily the basic mechanics (kick combos, lock-off castings, etc) that get me, its how the basics can be expanded upon with simply one more spell that is throwin me off.



    Take this into consideration...

    You'll see for example in this build, why one might consider such a major investment:Yojimbo Wizard

    Example 1: Take the Chaos Fireball all by itself. Pivot casting(***edit***insert lock off casting) this behind you is not only a way to prevent backstabs, but a way to inflict damage. Also, if they walk a couple steps in the lava, it will inflict 12 poise damage on top of the poise damage caused by the fireball, possibly causing a stun.

    Example 2: This: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Fast/slow castings/pyros affected at 45 dex:
    -Chaos Fireball
    -Black Flame
    -Great Combustion
    *All recieve apprx 20-27% decrease to casting times (according to wiki stat page)
    Then you have these sorceries to compliment:
    -Dark Bead...9%
    -Great Soul Arrow...9% (great tracking)
    -Crystal Soul Spear...9%
    -Homing Crystal Soulmass...9%
    -White Dragon Breath...22%
    -Dark Orb...22% (good for punishing confident rollers)
    -Pursuers...22%

    No matter how you attune, you cant help but wonder what are the essential castings and combos a caster build (or dex/hvy int build) might need to abuse, i order to tilt the scales.

    Not damage out necessarily, but playstyle.



    Would it be worth it to have 45 dexterity for a Dark Bead-->Dark Orb combo alone?

    Would it be worth 45 dexterity to abuse pivot casting Chaos Fireball to prevent backstabs alone...ESPECIALLY if you dont have the ability to backstab?

    Could 45 dexterity be the difference in landing a kick-->Great Combustion combo to end the match?


    If not dexterity, what do I put it into on a pure caster...vit?
    -1800 compared to 2000-2100 doesnt seem like much.

    Endurance...do you really need poise/stamina for a caster build?





    THESE are the questions maddening me as they unforgivingly filter through my mind at light speed. I have resisted leveling up for so long, that I'm not sure I can resist for much longer....ooo what about resistance?....
    .... SEE WHAT I MEAN!!! :drunken: :drunken:


    Last edited by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:02 am; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : edits edit/spacing)
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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:45 am

    I agree with Wyrm/reim but if you don't mind making the investment then I don't see why not.


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:47 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I agree with Wyrm/reim but if you don't mind making the investment then I don't see why not.

    I think we posted simultaneously, not sure if that changes anything.
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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 am

    If you're contemplating upping your RES then just level your DEX and be done with it. silly


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:55 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:If you're contemplating upping your RES then just level your DEX and be done with it. silly

    lol!

    Noooooooooo sh********t...

    .... WAIT could 99 resistance be the secret to the pendant? :drunken:

    What if I just level up courage? :drunken:

    NO, I shall level up my lag! :drunken: Joy Joy Joy


    Last edited by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : struktuur/funnies)
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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:17 am

    Dark Orb is a poor spell. A GHSA does about same damage at same cast speed, which means WDB is the best option for slow casting spells. Although Dark Orb is super fast once cast...


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:29 am

    I would only invest in dex for spells like fire tempest, GLGSD, great fireball/lightning spear, etc. It seems that the boost is a ratio as slow spells get a noticeable improvement while faster spells get little to nothing.


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:56 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    Would it be worth it to have 45 dexterity for a Dark Bead-->Dark Orb combo alone?

    Would it be worth 45 dexterity to abuse pivot casting Chaos Fireball to prevent backstabs alone...ESPECIALLY if you dont have the ability to backstab?

    Could 45 dexterity be the difference in landing a kick-->Great Combustion combo to end the match?


    If not dexterity, what do I put it into on a pure caster...vit?
    -1800 compared to 2000-2100 doesnt seem like much.

    Endurance...do you really need poise/stamina for a caster build?
    I'm not sure about the combo. I've never tried it, or got hit by it, but I think that you can roll away from it, because Dark Orb is really slow, even on Dex 45.

    If you want to prevent backstabs, pivot BF/GC works well and it's faster, so you can use it in case you don't level up your Dex.
    If you're keen on using Chaos Fireball, high Dex is a must, or you will get backstabbed before you can throw it.

    Kick ---> BF/GC works perfectly on 45 Dex and you can use it to combo someone you staggered with DB, for example.

    I got spellsword, whom I use as a pure caster when I feel like it.
    It has only 30 Vit and 25 End, but it has 45 Dex and 45 Int.

    HP and Stamina aren't that important. You need just enough to block and evade. If you combine it with DWGR, you will be able to evade and dodge most attacks very easily, while gaining a little more ground than with Fast Roll, which you can use to cast a spell.

    However you will need some Poise. Not much, 36 should be enough, so that faster weapons won't stagger you. With next to no Poise, you will mostly lose, because when people see a caster with no Poise, they will be very aggresive. They know that they can cancel the casters spells with simple R1.

    Also, if you manage to land a parry (don't be shy to parry, they won't expect it) cast DB, it will instakill most builds.

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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:50 pm

    That's so grizzly doing a DB after a riposte. It's like shooting someone pointblank with a shotgun. :shock:


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:26 am

    hey its andres wrote:That's so grizzly doing a DB after a riposte. It's like shooting someone pointblank with a shotgun. :shock:
    It gets a damage bonus as well, so it can one shot even a +1800 HP build.

    It's hard to time though, because of lag. :|


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:00 pm

    reim0027 wrote:I voted no. It is pointless to put points into dex to speed up an already fast spell.

    Bow

    I believe this answer to be correct, contrary to the polling numbers.

    I also apologize for redirecting the poll question a little. I think the polling numbers might reflect some of this conversation, and not the actual question.

    So I agree with reim. I used my votes to give Sentiel 100 cheers and forgot. Sorry reim, I own reim 1 vote... Prostration

    @Sentiel

    Thank you for answering my questions and obviously reading everything. Thank you so much. Your statements helped me make a lot of decisions about my build. Thanks and 100! cheers


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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:32 pm

    Sentiel wrote:...HP and Stamina aren't that important...

    Oooops, I just wanted to say I disagree a little, only because I use the Darkhand...
    ...more hp, def, and poise are my preference.


    I try not to spam, but twice or even thrice in a row aint bad I guess.
    (Dark Bead bows and xbows lol.)

    I try not to, but I'm not as good as FinPeku or the likes.

    Reducing vitality will be a slow progression for me personally. I'm just reliant until I progress maybe. I feel I have enough damage, especially if I'm not wearing DWGR. I have 18 Dark Beads 16 GC and 16 Black Flames lol. I know I can use the TinCrystalCat or ManusCat.

    Aaand ya dude, DWGR seems a little ninja imo. twisted
    I was pleasantly surprised.

    And also,

    Animaaal wrote:
    @Sentiel

    Thank you for answering my questions and obviously reading everything. Thank you so much. Your statements helped me make a lot of decisions about my build. Thanks and 100! cheers


    1000 blessings again sir sage.

    Prostration

    ***EDIT***
    +1 to reim for being the most correct, imo. I am now free of my self-created debt I had promised in post #15.
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    Re: Using Dexterity to Decrease Casting Times in PvP

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:20 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    So I agree with reim. I used my votes to give Sentiel 100 cheers and forgot. Sorry reim, I own reim 1 vote... Prostration

    @Sentiel

    Thank you for answering my questions and obviously reading everything. Thank you so much. Your statements helped me make a lot of decisions about my build. Thanks and 100! cheers
    I'm glad that the stuff I keep writing here actually helped somebody. happy


    Thanks for the 100. cheers


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