Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

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    Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:13 pm

    Current covenant summary: The chaos servant covenant is a non-PvP covenant that unlocks a shortcut to Lost Izalith, and gives you the pyromancy spells chaos fireball and chaos firestorm. The role of covenant members is to sacrifice their humanity to Quelaan in order to presumably ease her pain from trying to absorb the poison from other infected undead, which left her blind and sick. After getting to rank 2 and unlocking the shortcut, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to stick around.

    My revamp will generally focus on giving covenant members motivation to get to rank 3 and establishing a bond of loyalty to the covenant. The covenant bonuses will focus mainly on being infected by a maggot. When the player gets infected, after a short time, the player's head will turn into an egg. When the player earns enough souls the egg will hatch and the player's kick animation will be replaced and do minimal damage.

    Chaos Servant Revamp:


    Rank 0 - Player receives chaos fireball.

    Rank 1 - After obtaining rank 1, a new 1-time-only option will appear when talking to Quelaan called "Siphon poison". When selected, the player will absorb some essence from Quelaan and the maggot on the players head will become bigger and the damage will increase. Egg vermifuge no longer heals the player, and instead the player has to go to a certain NPC or ritual location in lost Izalith to be cured. If cured, the player can no longer reach rank 2.

    Rank 2 - Shortcut to lost Izalith is open and player receives chaos fireball. "Siphon poison" will become available again and this time after absorbing some of Quelaan's essence, the infection spreads down to the player's right arm. It would look like a slightly bloated egg sack with red pinchers where the hand was. Weapons can no longer be used in the right hand, gloves can't be equipped, and the attack animation is replaced. The foward-R2 jumping attack is replaced by a powerful punch where the player thrusts his arm forward and a maggot extends from the player's hand for extra range. If the maggot hits another player it absorbs humanity and infects them with an egg.

    Rank 3 - "Siphon poison" becomes available and this time the infection spreads over the player's entire body. The player's back is bulging with eggs and only leg armor and weapons in the left hand can be equipped. The player is also given a "Curse of the infected" item where when used, the player's back opens and 5 maggots come out and attack ANYTHING that isn't infected(including friendly phantoms and NPC's). Quelaan is also partially cured and has recovered her vision and ability to speak without the player wearing the Witch's ring. She thanks the player for all that he/she has done and tells the player a massive amount of information lore-wise. Speak to Quelana and she will spawn near Quelaan to keep her sister company, for an almost-happy ending.


    Last edited by LunarFog on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by User1 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:49 pm

    Seems good, if you personally want to find out lore, but the negativitys are near gamebreakers.
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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:06 pm

    What do you mean the negativities are near game breakers?

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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by RANT on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:10 pm

    rank three gets a chaos weapon buff but can only be used as long as you're in the covenant. i always wanted that, damnit FROM!


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by User1 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:07 pm

    I mean by near gamebreakers as not actually breaking the game, but the character. You are left so crippled, so weak, you are almost unable to do anything practical.
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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:42 pm

    RenegadeCop wrote:I mean by near gamebreakers as not actually breaking the game, but the character. You are left so crippled, so weak, you are almost unable to do anything practical.

    That would be...perfect. Think about it. You're goal is to ease Quelaan's suffering by desperately giving her any humanity you come across. The more humanity you give her and the most poison you take from her, the weaker you become. You eventually turn into a sickly monster yourself, but at least you're able to heal Quelaan's suffering a little bit more.

    The covenant won't be about gaining power for yourself, it'd be about sacrificing your power to help another.

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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:09 pm

    That would be crippling to PvE. It would essentially make the Chaos Covenant an entire side-quest, or an anternate-ending, only to be taken on if you don't plan on furthering your actual quest--or postponing it. The Chaos Covenant, as it is now, might not be completely fleshed out, but it does complement the main quest. Your suggestions would actually make it interfere with the quest!

    I do think it'd be cool as a side-quest, but it'd be nearly game-breaking. Think of the newbs!

    Edit: by "think of the newbs" I meant "think of the blind players". I do not advocate developing or balancing Souls games with newbs in mind! (And by "blind players" I obviously meant those not reading wikis, not the visually impaired...)


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:59 pm

    frankly it just sounds like a chaos egg based dragon form, pretty awesome but i'd suggest instead of the infection spreading that instead the egg head gets new powers and a different appearance, for example a damaging spit attack at rank 1 and a few legs poking out of the egg, at rank 2 you get a spider head similar to quelaags lower body and the spit attack gains toxic, at rank three the spit would linger in pools that last around 5 seconds, i have no idea what the visual change would be though...


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:09 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:frankly it just sounds like a chaos egg based dragon form, pretty awesome but i'd suggest instead of the infection spreading that instead the egg head gets new powers and a different appearance, for example a damaging spit attack at rank 1 and a few legs poking out of the egg, at rank 2 you get a spider head similar to quelaags lower body and the spit attack gains toxic, at rank three the spit would linger in pools that last around 5 seconds, i have no idea what the visual change would be though...

    Maybe the third skill with the item was pushing it a little, I just wanted the player to see itself transform into a monster for the sake of Quelaan. Now that I think of it, there should be more negatives than benefits for this covenant...


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:37 am

    It's nice and all to help her, but... Well, there has to be some incentive to actually join the Covenant and not just Youtube/Wiki the Lore.

    If it's all downsides, or mainly downsides, then nobody will bother with it, not even for the lore.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:20 am

    I think it is creative as ****. If I have a +1 I'll give it to you.

    I dont agree with the "should be more negatives" outlook though. Theres no reason the pincher arm cant be effective in pve and pvp. Make your arm buffable and have some sicka$$ combo. 30 poise break?!?!? Combine that with the "magot brigade" and I think you got a winner. I dont think they should attack your phantoms though.

    I also think they should dance. Have them do the wave after you beat an invader. Or you could have them non-stop vomit on the place the invader died. Something sick, maybe they start cannablizing each other after the invader dies idk.

    Cool ideas.
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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Ashran on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:41 am

    I would love to join this new chaos covenant. It isnt gamebreaking, its a challenge, a new way to play. Dont be afraid of dropping your lightning katanas, dear users.

    Also, it would be cool to have spider legs xD


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by lonewolf on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:31 am

    an idea would be that at a rank the player could get the abilety to grow 8 legs from their and that the egg hatches and reweals a large magot with pincers and claws.
    the player would be liftet off the ground slightly becouse you are using the legs to walk, and you would get a large ressistance to fire and you would be able to hit with your legs creating magma on the ground and having a large knockback i mean flying backwards while blocking knockback.
    the arm that was infected would fal off and becoming a small centerpiede demon the player would also release several magots that would lach on invaders and npcs slowing them down and infecting them while giving you humanity and souls while the invader lose theirs.
    you would also be able to lach on to sommeone before eating them and coroding their armor and wepons.
    this was my idea


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:44 am

    Okay, after thinking about it a bit more I think your idea has more merit than I first though~ I think I focused on the negatives a bit too much...

    Firstly, you should be allowed to equip gloves at level 2 BUT they should only give half the stats (Rounded down in the case of half numbers). It would only have a graphic for your healthy arm of course.

    I think Ranks 0-2 should be... not exactly all upside, but it should seem more beneficial than not. Then Rank 3 should be... totally different.

    Your previously strong Pincer arm would mutate further, being a cumbersome slow bashing attack/shield which would deal Chaos damage. (It would only have 80-90% Phys damage reduction to reflect it's part of your body)

    Your left arm would mutate slightly, preventing anything to be equipped to that slot, but allowing you to perform Pyromancies. You'd have a short-range claw attack, with low damage and a small bleed+Poison buildup, if you attack with 0 Pyromancies.

    Your legs would mutate in some way, though I'm not sure how, the end result being you can't equip leg armor, and your dodge has increased range, but always ends kinda like the fat roll. So it's both an upgrade and a downgrade to your dodging power.

    Either your chest would stay normal, OR, Your back would have a smaller version of the eggs that the infected have, and when you're hit/block a couple maggots would burst out and attack nearby enemies.

    You would become completely immune to Fire, and take reduced damage from Lava.


    Quelaan would become much healthier, though still in a weakened state, she'll lament the loss of her sister, but commend you for the suffering you've gone through and teach you a new Pyromancy, one related to Blightpuss that is only usable in your current form.

    Possibly she teaches you some more Chaos Pyromancies?


    Either way, definitely a possibility... there's just gotta be a reason to do it, other than lore and making the game harder for yourself.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:22 pm

    Zephryl wrote:
    Either way, definitely a possibility... there's just gotta be a reason to do it, other than lore and making the game harder for yourself.

    Helping a sick, sweet girl isn't enough of a reason? You owe her after killing her sister AND care-taker you know. Plus, even if it doesn't have incentive besides lore and your own personal feelings, it's still got more of a reason to exist than the covenant does now. Where you only join to open the shortcut.



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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:47 am

    LunarFog wrote:
    Zephryl wrote:
    Either way, definitely a possibility... there's just gotta be a reason to do it, other than lore and making the game harder for yourself.

    Helping a sick, sweet girl isn't enough of a reason? You owe her after killing her sister AND care-taker you know. Plus, even if it doesn't have incentive besides lore and your own personal feelings, it's still got more of a reason to exist than the covenant does now. Where you only join to open the shortcut.


    With your only reward being a debilitating, crippling mutation? No. Not even a little.

    And -none- of the Covenants have reasons to join them outside of a single gimmick. Invade easier, Get invaded easier, Get Co-op easier, Miracle Synergy, Gravelording people, the shortcut.

    The gear from some of them is a nice addition, but asides from early on I don't think any of it is really useful.

    Either way, simple fact is that only a handful of people will go to Rank 3 if it's purely for lore reasons, and most of those would do it because they haven't read the wiki and don't know there's no reward.

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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by callipygias on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:01 am

    I like the idea of giving humanity simply to ease the suffering of the Fair Lady, the way it is now. It's what Kirk was doing, and I killed Kirk, so I'm taking up the responsibility.

    Or the realistic answer is I give her humanity because the only other thing I have to do with it is to eventually lose it.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:20 am

    Zephryl wrote:

    With your only reward being a debilitating, crippling mutation? No. Not even a little.

    And -none- of the Covenants have reasons to join them outside of a single gimmick. Invade easier, Get invaded easier, Get Co-op easier, Miracle Synergy, Gravelording people, the shortcut.

    The gear from some of them is a nice addition, but asides from early on I don't think any of it is really useful.

    Either way, simple fact is that only a handful of people will go to Rank 3 if it's purely for lore reasons, and most of those would do it because they haven't read the wiki and don't know there's no reward.

    Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa. i'ma let you finish, but I just want to let you know that you're wrong, several times.

    Calling some of the covenant benefits "gimmicks" is a gross understatement. Gimmick implies something that is not all that significant, where it's main purpose is to attract attention. "invading easier" is no gimmick.

    Zephryl wrote:And -none- of the Covenants have reasons to join them outside of a single gimmick. Invade easier, Get invaded easier, Get Co-op easier, Miracle Synergy, Gravelording people, the shortcut.
    The way you say this, it almost makes it sound like you're in favor of useless covenants who only attracts players because of a gimmick.

    But that's not really a major error. The BIG error is that you seem to think that a covenant that doesn't give the player a clear in-game advantage or benefit won't attract attention. I'll tell you why they're popular: Covenant loyalty. A player will stay in a covenant if they agree with what the covenant stands for, or feels a sense of pride in the covenant, or just enjoy the covenant figurehead(I'm talking to you sunbros).

    A covenant that gives you the choice to travel down a path that turns you into a weakened monster to console a witch that players have always felt sorry for is a much better covenant with much more potential for popularity than the current version of Chaos Servant and several other covenants.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:53 am

    The simple fact of the matter is that every Covenant needs to be accessible, and useful, on a first playthrough.

    Being able to help others, or invade to steal their humanity, are useful. But not everyone enjoys online, or is capable of playing it... their only reasonable option is the Chaos Servant Covenant.

    Turning it into a lore based downside that will only appeal to experienced players... Unless other Covenants get PvE elements added in too, it's not a good move.

    Of course, you could just make it so you can be cured without damaging your relationship with the Cov. Would make sense too, she couldn't cure herself becuase her mind is obviously damaged by the poison and she's immobile.

    But no reason why the player can't drag their infected self halfway through the Demonic Ruins, or to Anor Londo or something to get cured. Experienced players could stay infected for the challenge, new players could get cured so they have the upsides without the downsides that would make the game far too difficult for a new, inexperienced player... Seems like a win/win to me.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by lonewolf on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:46 am

    Zephryl wrote:The simple fact of the matter is that every Covenant needs to be accessible, and useful, on a first playthrough.

    Being able to help others, or invade to steal their humanity, are useful. But not everyone enjoys online, or is capable of playing it... their only reasonable option is the Chaos Servant Covenant.

    Turning it into a lore based downside that will only appeal to experienced players... Unless other Covenants get PvE elements added in too, it's not a good move.

    Of course, you could just make it so you can be cured without damaging your relationship with the Cov. Would make sense too, she couldn't cure herself becuase her mind is obviously damaged by the poison and she's immobile.

    But no reason why the player can't drag their infected self halfway through the Demonic Ruins, or to Anor Londo or something to get cured. Experienced players could stay infected for the challenge, new players could get cured so they have the upsides without the downsides that would make the game far too difficult for a new, inexperienced player... Seems like a win/win to me.

    you have the dragonbros they are not exactly just pluses they have a lot of downsides to it as well and it is not noob friendly and it if offline capable.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:28 am

    lonewolf wrote:

    you have the dragonbros they are not exactly just pluses they have a lot of downsides to it as well and it is not noob friendly and it if offline capable.

    True~ But they also have a PvP use, Chaos is the only pure PvE one.

    But yeah... farming 30 Dragon Scales for the Torso... not fun silly
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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:22 am

    The point of the idea is commitment. Rank 1 doesn't give you any negatives except for the fact you can't wear a helmet anymore. If a player only wants to open the shortcut, then he could get himself healed and leave as soon as he reaches rank 2, which has a lot more negatives. There's a lot of ways you could be in the covenant to open up the apparently obligated one gimmick, without suffering from the effects of ranking up.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Zephryl on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:28 am

    I don't see how debilitating the player will inspire commitment at all... surely people will get to rank 3, go "That was a nice bit of lore. Now get me the hell out of this mutant form" and leave the covenant for one with more useful perks.


    Also, question~ What happens if they don't take out the poison at rank 1, when they get to rank 2? Can they take it out twice? Or do they go straight to the second mutation? Or is the "Mutant" path locked to them until they rejoin?


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by LunarFog on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:09 pm

    The covenant won't have the most followers, but because of how much the player suffers, and how much they helped Quelaan, the few covenant fans would be die-hards.

    If they don't take the poison out, they won't be able to increase in rank no matter how much humanity they offer. Then if they take out the poison, if they already gave her enough humanity, they'd only need to give her one more before they increase in rank again.


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    Re: Chaos Servant Covenant Revamp

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:24 pm

    I'm still stuck on the "Maggot Brigade".

    1)50 toxin build up per bite, on top of infection. Could be adjusted according to rank.

    2)Their defenses are 65% of yours, includes elementals. Could also be adjusted by rank.

    3)Upon defeating an invader, they eat the bloodstain and the surviving maggots leave their own bloodstain/s in return. Could contribute to leveling up covenant.

    4)When entering a boss door, you reabsorb them in order to re-deploy.


    I'm not sure about everything else, but I would LOVE to see something like this.


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