I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

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    Are you interested in SL 150 FC????

    [ 24 ]
    35% [35%] 
    [ 45 ]
    65% [65%] 

    Total Votes: 69
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    WyrmHero
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 pm

    ^Pretty much how I said f*** it and ended with this just for some more poise/fast roll.

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=135889450536890080


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:00 pm

    *bump because you know we've all wondered and wyrm has balls.

    I also dont think the poll is reflective of efficiency, but maybe I'm thinking outside the box too much.

    I guess to restimulate the conversation I'll just say...no more 40 endurance...
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by SirPatrick on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:23 pm

    Animaaal wrote:*bump because you know we've all wondered and wyrm has balls.

    I also dont think the poll is reflective of efficiency, but maybe I'm thinking outside the box too much.

    I guess to restimulate the conversation I'll just say...no more 40 endurance...

    I really just didn't know what the deal was in the first place with the soul level, I didn't know about any specific cap except that people would prefer lower levels for duels/co-op/invasion. I'm sure people get together and drop items to each other that they haven't even earned the rank to, I think that people should rank up a bit so they can have fun using all the spells and armour. I'm SL190 atm, it's been fun "trying" to beat all those experienced DS players at their own game.

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:34 pm

    @Sir Patrick

    I can appreciate your point of view.

    To try and answer your question, I believe its more about optomization than anything.

    Since Demon's Souls, soul level 120 has been considered the point at which the most variety of balanced builds become available. It was tried and true with Demon's Souls, and when Dark Souls came out, of course the same mentality was applied.

    I believe for the most part, it was accurate upon release. I appreciate the arguement of going to soul level 100, and 150.

    The only reason, imo, this becomes a topic of discussion once again is because of the nerf to the DWGR. Without the ability to achieve efficient poise breakpoints as easily as before(while fast rolling), I am uncertain at what the most "balanced" soul level range is nowadays.

    Some say, 100, some say 120, and some say 130-150. I say...idk man.

    I hope this answers your question. And kudos for not restricting yourself.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by SirPatrick on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:05 pm

    OK, I see how the DWGR nerf might effect the balance as you see it, so if people want to level up their endurance then they can compensate for fast rolling with higher poise from heavier armor carried. Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad they nerfed the DWGR, as many people just take advantage of the lag IMO, at least now there is a chance now to knock them over and also a chance to rank up faith for wrath of the gods which is a good counter for the lag stabbers and maybe not realized by new players that don't want to have to start the game again from scratch (especially if they want to do NG+ and NG++). I really like the weapons and armor and was just as concerned about PvE playing as a turtle at the beginning, only later on I wanted to try different things (noting that I am new to the series)
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:50 pm

    I voted no, but not because I don't make/have high level builds.

    No need for those shenanigans, the cap around 100-130 is fine. I see plenty of variety outside of the few who consistently spam katanas and dark magic.

    I, however, do thoroughly enjoy both my SL 165 and SL 408.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Poozila on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:05 pm

    I see no problem with a higher lvl cap. Just do what you want.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Fossil on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:23 am

    Voted yes because I like these types of weapons/builds so I understand what Wrym has been getting at. Some weapons just require too many stats just to use them. Which in itself isn't necessarily bad assuming stat dump = good damage output, but with big slow weapons you also need poise and you need to offset their weight somehow. And those two concepts generally oppose each other.

    I remember when the game first game out people were talking about a higher cap around 140 or so. I don't know if it was tradition, DWGR, or some mysterious force of nature that kept people at 120, but I was kind of disappointed.

    Regardless it'd be nice to see certain weapons made more usable in DS2. Maybe have Str increase your equip burden or give heavy weapons innate poise.

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Automancer on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:41 am

    I obviously voted yes. From DeS till now, most of the competitive PvP scene that we've seen are all min-maxed builds. That is definitely awesome, being able to tweak your build to perfection at the lowest possible SL ranges. Even though i never did any PvP when i played DeS, i'm bored of fighting min-maxers or even watching sometimes. If i fight someone, i'd would like them to be at their very best. Their VERY BEST.

    That way, no one can complain about what disadvantages they had during the fight and blame their losses on that. But others feel different about this. To each their own, i guess.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 pm

    *bump

    I'd like to see if these discussions influence the meta for DS2.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon May 20, 2013 10:03 pm

    don't you mean necro bump? any way sl 150.... too much time.... guh though depending on the stats in dks2 lower sl's might be more pvp assecible...


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 20, 2013 10:07 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:don't you mean necro bump? any way sl 150.... too much time.... guh though depending on the stats in dks2 lower sl's might be more pvp assecible...

    Yes. I'm necroing today. Some of the threads are kinda...well...boring? Shrug

    And dear God I hope not. Cap at 712, but we play at 120.... Look Skyward

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Rumeye on Tue May 21, 2013 12:46 am

    How about these ? :

    SL: 125

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=276779707849174753

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=466268643439569762


    I voted no, because 125 is already versatile and good/high enough, even though i prefer 100 since most of my time i do random invasions and 100 is just perfect for that and it can pretty much contain any kind of build and you can invade non-stop with it anywhere.

    But any way i don’t think that our opinions nor our votes matter that much because you’ll always find pvp at any lvl, and if i’d make a SL 150 build it well be strictly for random invasions it won’t bother me that the "community" is playing with 120s. BTW, in my opinion you can have great invasions with a 40/40 120 quality build using SH, its just that the set up won’t work very well in FCs and appointed 1 vs 1s, i’m sure you know that though.

    I don’t think that a specific weapon needs a build of its own except for the weapons that aren’t pure physical , a quality 40/40 can be anything really, you just need to rearrange some stuff, switch some rings and there you go!.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by divinebeanpole on Tue May 21, 2013 2:19 pm

    SL120-125 ftw


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu May 23, 2013 5:12 am

    Hey guys.

    Really can't wait for DkS2 PvP. All I know is that I'll get the biggest sword and I won't be gimped by Dex builds SL standards. Be it SL 120 150 200, I'll experiment with the stats till I find the best SL for a Str build just like I did it here. Hopefully I'll make a FC around the new SL. Be well.

    -Wyrm


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Shakie666 on Thu May 23, 2013 6:00 am

    A while ago I made this build, I won most of my duels with it, though I wonder if that's due to the effectiveness of the build or the incompetency of my opponents.

    Unfortunately you can't effectively replace the DGM with a DGA, the extra str and end needed mean you can only have 1321 hp at sl120.

    By the way: why do people still stop at 56 poise? There's no point to it now greatswords can't stunlock.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Avenger649 on Thu May 23, 2013 6:13 am

    There are still some great-swords that can stun-lock, particularly the great lord great-sword and the flamberge strong attack.
    Also, it is 53 poise to resist a great-sword attack to my knowledge.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Dutchy on Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 am

    If this is for lulz, that's cool. But if not, 150 would be insane. No build would have to sacrifice for anything, 120 is lenient enough as it is. If anything, it should be permanently lowered to 50 or 55. That when real compromises come into play.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Shakie666 on Thu May 23, 2013 8:14 am

    Dutchy wrote:If this is for lulz, that's cool. But if not, 150 would be insane. No build would have to sacrifice for anything, 120 is lenient enough as it is. If anything, it should be permanently lowered to 50 or 55. That when real compromises come into play.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Look at this build. 53 poise, decent health + damage for the level, and ninja flips.

    I now challenge you to make a decent str weapon build at that level.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by O1va_ on Thu May 23, 2013 8:28 am

    Shakie666 wrote:
    Dutchy wrote:If this is for lulz, that's cool. But if not, 150 would be insane. No build would have to sacrifice for anything, 120 is lenient enough as it is. If anything, it should be permanently lowered to 50 or 55. That when real compromises come into play.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Look at this build. 53 poise, decent health + damage for the level, and ninja flips.

    I now challenge you to make a decent str weapon build at that level.

    http://mmdks.com/2for

    Both have crappy defenses, but this was made quick.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Dutchy on Thu May 23, 2013 8:46 am

    Anybody can say there are exceptions to rules. I could just as easily make a crappy 150 build to prove the main point wrong, but the achievement with this would be in the negatives. Yes, you can make OP builds with SL50, 120, 150. I could make an OP SL20 build.

    Afterthought, when you think about it, the different build choices have sort of an inverse hourglass shape to them:

    SL10 --
    30 ---
    50 ----
    70 -----
    90 ------
    110 ------
    130 -----
    150 ---
    170 --

    Just one of those things


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Shakie666 on Thu May 23, 2013 8:54 am

    O1va_ wrote:
    Shakie666 wrote:
    Dutchy wrote:If this is for lulz, that's cool. But if not, 150 would be insane. No build would have to sacrifice for anything, 120 is lenient enough as it is. If anything, it should be permanently lowered to 50 or 55. That when real compromises come into play.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Look at this build. 53 poise, decent health + damage for the level, and ninja flips.

    I now challenge you to make a decent str weapon build at that level.

    http://mmdks.com/2for

    Both have crappy defenses, but this was made quick.
    Well, yeah. I guess I should have said "make a str build at level that has a chance of beating my build".

    Here's the salient point though: you're not sacrificing that much really, apart from some defence, which I doubt would really make a massive difference.

    Incidentally, I just came up with this build, which still has terrible defence, but the very high health makes up for it.

    EDIT: I guess the lack of compromise only happens because you hardly need to invest any stats for it to work. For example, an int build at that level would need to sacrifice either fast roll or good armour.


    Last edited by Shakie666 on Thu May 23, 2013 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Dutchy on Thu May 23, 2013 8:56 am

    In my opinion, I don't think lower def = high HP. My idea of it is more like high def > Everything


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu May 23, 2013 9:00 am

    This thread is madness.

    I could easily make a 40 int dex faith build with wog, slb, dark bead, pursuers, gmb and still have enough points left over for good vit and fast roll with relatively high poise..

    OP much?


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Shakie666 on Thu May 23, 2013 9:16 am

    Serious_Much wrote:This thread is madness.

    I could easily make a 40 int dex faith build with wog, slb, dark bead, pursuers, gmb and still have enough points left over for good vit and fast roll with relatively high poise..

    OP much?

    Not that OP when you think about it, most duels are over in under a minute (for me at least), meaning you'll never get the chance to use most of those spells. More versatile =/= more powerful.

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