I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

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    Are you interested in SL 150 FC????

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    WyrmHero
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    I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:56 am

    For it's the only way to have a decent Smough's Hammer build, comparable in poise, HP and fast roll to a Dex build. Prostration

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=309553221157471866


    Last edited by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:03 am

    I see your build and raise you this - http://mmdks.com/zbs
    But seriously, I dont see why you need to be OP in every aspect Wyrm. You should be making sacrifices with builds.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:15 am

    Meh Dex builds are OP as hell and they rarely make sacrifices. The SL 100 cap is perfect for them, they can have almost everything. 650 AR isn't enough for the low SL cap sacrifices. The damage per second is too low. Maybe if Str weapons had 1000 AR then it would be worth say, going 0 poise on a Str build.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:26 am

    http://mmdks.com/zbv
    Health, magic, poise and mid roll on a str build tongue
    I don't see your problem I'm afraid.
    (Admittedly its been 5 months since I played DkS so I dont remember much)


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:36 am

    Ha that's a good cosplay however to properly use great hammers you got to fast roll for a more efficient ground smash. Since great hammers can't stunlock the R1s are almost useless. Anyway, good cosplay indeed.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:16 am

    BTW I was thinking. We got the SL 120 cap from DeS right. Did you know that DeS diminishing returns begin at 30 for every offensive stat? This means that almost every build had 1500 HP, fast roll and buff, while having maximum AR. Elemental builds had 99 Vit with split physical/magical AR swords. The highest Str requirement was for the Bramd at 36 Str, piece of cake. I have a Bramd build at 50 Vit, 24 Str and around 68 End for fast roll, no Havel's ring equivalent needed. He can even use a buff at 16 Int equivalent. SL 125. Fast roll at 50% equipload. The SL cap should have been lower back then.

    DkS diminishing returns are different, they begin at 40 for Str/Dex and Int/Faith at 50. We now have fast roll at 25%, a pain in a** for Str builds. Poise is also an important stat. Back then they had the luxury of having 40 End minimum. Now we have to sacrifice End for other stats. Still there was build variety back then. But everyone had a place, not like now that Str builds are crippled with low SL caps. I say let's keep the 40 End minimum of the old days, and raise the SL cap. F*** the sacrifices!!!!


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:29 am

    http://mmdks.com/zcf

    SL 99 is more than enough levels to make a good smough's hammer build. Pyromancy flame for relatively quick casts without consuming stamina, greatstone sword to cast the tranquil walk of peace thing against those pesky fast people, and iron flesh to make sure you can tank out anyone else using a tank.

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:03 pm

    I added a poll to see if you guys want to try it.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:05 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:I see your build and raise you this - http://mmdks.com/zbs
    But seriously, I dont see why you need to be OP in every aspect Wyrm. You should be making sacrifices with builds.

    What's the Havel's Ring for? You're fat rolling anyway.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by artoria on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:54 pm

    are people still pvping at 120? or is everyone at 100? I wanna make an artorias build but for it to be at all decent its got to be 120, its still not great but im willing to sacrifice substance for style

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:52 pm

    I was pretty sad to see everyone jump on the sl100 bandwagon instead of the sl200 bandwagon actually.

    I always thought the meta could find a way to push past 120. Just because some builds lose some effectiveness past 120 doesnt mean others dont gain.

    Which soul level offers the most variety I dont presume to know, only that I've wondered. I did think that the DWGR nerf would've tilted the scales in favor of higher soul levels though. Not sure why that didnt happen.

    I voted yes.

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by wolfboy on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:56 pm

    I actually wish there was more high level PVP... I personally think it's easier to make one build that can do a lot of different things as opposed to several builds that specialize in one skill... While it's true that some build diversity is lost at higher soul levels, everybody still has their own unique play style...

    I think 150 would be a great cap... Higher SL PVP is a different kind of challenge....

    I bet a few of us have toons that are close to 150- we should test it out and try a fight club at sl150... Maybe a cosplay event?
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Avenger649 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:59 pm

    The only reason that I would go to that level is for an artorias cos-play and even then a higher soul level is preferable.
    The fact is that at 150 you don't really have to sacrifice anything, your build will function however you want in to.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:41 pm

    I voted no. I like the idea of min/maxing. It forces you to think and make tough decisions. You have to ask yourself - what exactly do I want out of this build? Then, what am I going to sacrifice to achieve that? With high SL, you don't need to make those decisions and not as much thought goes into making the build.

    At high SL, your build really isn't too much more powerful either, it is just more versatile.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Carphil on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:56 pm

    Oh no.

    We already had 120, 225, 125, 99, 55.


    I already have 10 builds on two PSN accounts (and I really like them where they are)


    plus what Reim said.

    My high levels builds don't get PVP action anywhere outside forest or Anor Londo, and its very easy to adapt to any opponent. Basicly with every equipment and still fast rolling.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:09 pm

    reim0027 wrote:I voted no. I like the idea of min/maxing. It forces you to think and make tough decisions. You have to ask yourself - what exactly do I want out of this build? Then, what am I going to sacrifice to achieve that? With high SL, you don't need to make those decisions and not as much thought goes into making the build.

    At high SL, your build really isn't too much more powerful either, it is just more versatile.

    But this isn't very high SL, this is an intermediate. The Smough's Hammer build is on par with a Dex build. At lower SL it has to sacrifice way too much things to even use it. The low AR is not worth the sacrifice. A Great Club has same AR at 40 Str 2 handed, for around 14 less weight. Low SL is only limiting the variety of weapon choices and builds, in this case Dex is winner.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:24 pm

    I'd actually prefer it if the Sl stop was something really really lower. Like 50.

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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Rifter7 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:32 pm

    wyrm sl 200 is kind of active and already established..

    its just.. you remember those dex builds you didn't like at sl 100? yeah they're ninja flipping with giants now.

    http://mmdks.com/zls

    you can make a sl 150 version of that if you'd like. hardly makes anything balanced imo.
    and.. i don't know what kind of strength weapons you want to use, but the lighter ones are well represented at sl 100 and 120..

    half baked 150
    http://mmdks.com/zlv


    Last edited by Rifter7 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:39 pm

    I miss 120.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:55 pm

    It's not that I don't like them, it's that they rule low SL PvP.You have seen my other threats rambling about how difficult it is for Str builds to be competitive. I mean Dex builds get to use all kinds of light weapons at low End cost and a Str build has to go either Zweih, Greataxe or Great Club to be effective because of the ridiculous weight of the other ones. If we go higher on SL but not too high we can get a balance in the variety of weapons for both sides. Dex builds will definitely get stronger but the difference in power won't be as noticeable thanks to the high diminishing returns.

    Example a Chaos Blade build is a lot more stronger than a Smough's Hammer build at SL 100, but at SL 150 the Smough's Hammer build can finally have poise, high HP and fast roll meanwhile the Chaos Blade build would opt for either max HP (with high diminishing returns), more armor or maybe Int or Faith. It isn't as significant at low SL where the Smough's Hamner would probably have either 0 poise, 1500 HP or even medium roll.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:03 pm

    W - it sounds like you want it all: heavy weapon, high vitality, fast roll, and poise. Unfortunately, if you get it all, so do your dex builds. They will have all that and a bag of chips. At higher SL, you will see them with the same vitality, heavy armor, and poise. But, they will also have more options too, like buffs, pyros/miracles/spells.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by Rifter7 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:07 pm

    people won't do that because every other build has to deal with dwgr and high poise/defenses now or what reim said. (sorry i was typing this the same time you where lol)

    sure you can have poise with some fatter weapons, but every other build that you thought was annoying is getting much more powerful at the cost of you being able to wield a hammer to roll r1 around with..

    but yeah.. dude sl 200 is active.
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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:09 pm

    reim0027 wrote:W - it sounds like you want it all: heavy weapon, high vitality, fast roll, and poise. Unfortunately, if you get it all, so do your dex builds. They will have all that and a bag of chips. At higher SL, you will see them with the same vitality, heavy armor, and poise. But, they will also have more options too, like buffs, pyros/miracles/spells.

    I looked at rif's SL 150 Chaos Blade and it looks almost like an SL 100 but with more defense and more iframes. The increase in power wasn't significant imo.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:29 pm

    http://mmdks.com/zma

    That chaos blade build is very very versatile. You would not want to come across rif with that build. So many different things you can do with that build.


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    Re: I now declare SL 150 the new SL cap

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:33 pm

    At SL 100 the Smough's Hammer looks like this:

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=246098528336662543

    It lacks poise, a necessity for Str weapons.


    A SL 100 Chaos Blade:

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=426409360603076320

    With all the basic things, even has extra equipload for more armor combinations and even more poise.


    Now compare those 2 with the ones rifter and me posted at SL 150. The SM build has better chance to win against the Dex build at SL 150 than 100, even if the Dex build flips and has more defense than before. 0 poise is a significant difference in power.









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