Flame from New Londo?

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    WandererReece
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    Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WandererReece on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:33 am

    I just realized Vamos calls the Large Fire Ember a "Flame from New Londo."

    Does anyone know why?


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:54 am

    Must have been from New Londo. I always thought that Kirk took it and hid it in Demon Ruins when he joined the Chaos Covenant. I had other theories as to why it was in New Londo in the first place, but they're too crazy.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WandererReece on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:42 pm


    No one else has posted, so I’ll post my idea.

    Let’s look at what we know.


    • The item description is
      Ember required for weapon ascension.
      Large flame ember used in ancient rites.
      Handled only by blacksmiths knowledgeable in
      ancient methods. Ascends +5 fire weapon.
      Allows reinforcement to +10,
      the most powerful level for fire weapons.

    • When Vamos sees it he says
      … Hmph? Whay, that's…
      … An ember from New Londo…
      … And a fine ember it be…
      What do you say? Why not leave it with me?
      I'll give you a flame to feast your eyes upon.

    • It’s found in the Demon Ruins in a chest guarded by big worms.

    Now let’s look at the lore around this ember.


    • The Demon Ruins leads to Lost Izalith. This has the Bed of Chaos. It was created by the Witch of Izalith.
    • The Demon Ruins also has the Chaos Ember.
      Ember required for weapon ascension.
      Chaos Flame Ember is an art of the lost city
      of Izalith. Handled only by blacksmiths
      knowledgeable in ancient methods. Ascends +5 fire weapon to chaos weapon.
      (chaos weapon can be reinforced to +5)
      Chaos weapons are demon weapons augmented
      by humanity which inflict fire damage.
      When Vamos sees it he says
      … Hmph? What, that's…
      … an ember unlike any that I have seen…
      … a very curious pattern…
      … Could it be the flame of the legendary witch?
      … I know! Suppose you left that ember with me?
      Old Vamos would never let you down, no, not ever!
      This means it was created in Lost Izalith by the Witch of Izalith and brought up to the Demon Ruins by the now dead person carrying it.
    • The Large Ember is supposed to be from New Londo. It was flooded to prevent the spread of Darkwraiths. This city’s name is similar to Anor Londo. Perhaps it was supposed to be a new Anor Londo?
    • Anor Londo is the home of the gods. It is famous for being sunshiney. If New Londo was also created by the gods, then perhaps the Large Flame Ember was moved there?
    • Gwyn used to be in Anor Londo. He ordered the Witch of Izalith to recreate the First Flame. She failed epicly. She created the Bed of Chaos and became the Mother of Phyromancy. The Bed of Chaos then created the demons. Then Gwyn left to rekindle the First Flame.

    Now let’s look at how the ember functions.

    · The Large Flame Ember and Chaos Ember put fire on a weapon.

    o The Large Flame Ember puts a strong, non-scaling fire on a weapon.

    o The Chaos Ember puts a weak fire on a weapon, but it scales with humanity.

    · They are very similar, but clearly different.

    Now we ask questions.


    • Why did he call the Large Fire Ember a “Flame from New Londo”? Was he mistaken?
    • How did the ember get from New Londo to the Demon Ruins?

    This is what I think.


    • The First Flame somehow created the Large Fire Ember.
    • The Gods ordered New Londo built.
    • The Large Flame Ember was kept there.
    • Gwyn probably gave the Large Ember to the Witch when she was told to recreate the First Flame.
    • The Large Flame Ember was moved from New Londo to Lost Izalith so she could work on it.
    • Using the flame she created a corrupt flame. That created the Bed of Chaos and the Chaos Ember.
    • After things went south the Large Ember was put in the chest.

    This explains how an ember found in the Demon Ruins gets called a “Flame from New Londo”.


    Last edited by WandererReece on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Ashran on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:46 pm

    Wait, Gwyn ordered the witch of Izalith to duplicate the flame?


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:50 pm

    Makes sense.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WandererReece on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:53 pm



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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:28 pm

    Where in-game does it say that Gwyn told the Witch to recreate it? I've never come across anything that gave me that impression.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Shkar on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:55 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Where in-game does it say that Gwyn told the Witch to recreate it? I've never come across anything that gave me that impression.

    It doesn't, it must be based off speculation.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Ashran on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:58 am

    Well, it makes sense so they can link the flame infinite times but... lol.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by densetsushun on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:57 am

    Considering Gwyn kindled the First Flame himself, it seems unlikely that he were to do something as selfish as ask the Witch of Izalith to recreate the First Flame, the action of sacrificing himself for the Flame makes me think he's quite selfless.


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:40 am

    He didn't kindle the first Flame, it simply was, as far as we know. He found his Lord Soul within it. Why would he need to find his soul if he kindled it to begin with?

    I believe he did go to the Witch, since Pyromancy did NOT exist before she failed, it would be logical that they would need a powerful source of magical fire to proceed in the attempt. Gwyn would have known of the Large Flame Ember in New Londo. He brings it to the Witch, she uses it with her Lord Soul in an attempt to recreate the Flame of the Kiln. However, she fails, this would seem to point to what I've been saying in my posts...the Kiln of the First Flame transcends anything even the Gods could conjure up. When they meddled with those forces things get out of hand. The Bed of Chaos is born and I would wager that THAT is when the Chaos Ember is created and why the Large Flame Ember is located in the Demon Ruins. Gwyn thusly sees no other way, breaks his soul to preserve a means for others to get to the Kiln in case he fails.
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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by densetsushun on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:55 am

    alchemydesign wrote:He didn't kindle the first Flame, it simply was, as far as we know. He found his Lord Soul within it. Why would he need to find his soul if he kindled it to begin with?
    He did relight the First Flame, Dark Souls is in a sort of extended Age of Fire.

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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:13 pm

    Oh, yeah, I know that, I thought you meant he started the Age of Fire. My bad happy
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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by densetsushun on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 pm

    I'd love to know what exactly DID start the Age of Fire. I'm waiting, From sad


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:55 pm

    Lol, I got a big speculatory post just near this one *shameless thread plug* ^_^
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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Hue on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:36 pm

    densetsushun wrote:I'd love to know what exactly DID start the Age of Fire. I'm waiting, From sad

    Well, the trailer implies that "The Flame" was around since the beginning, close to the core/bottom of that planet/plane, when the latter was created, a part of "nature"
    Like the good 4.5 billion year old molten nickel and iron core of our planet, except there's fire and souls instead of physics

    What bugs me though...where are the living? I always heard of dead, undead, hollows, gods, ghosts, humans, magical ****, immortal dragons, but not a single time have i heard the word "Living", anywhere.
    Even the god damn rats are undead

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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:29 pm

    Hachouma wrote:
    densetsushun wrote:I'd love to know what exactly DID start the Age of Fire. I'm waiting, From sad

    Well, the trailer implies that "The Flame" was around since the beginning, close to the core/bottom of that planet/plane, when the latter was created, a part of "nature"
    Like the good 4.5 billion year old molten nickel and iron core of our planet, except there's fire and souls instead of physics

    What bugs me though...where are the living? I always heard of dead, undead, hollows, gods, ghosts, humans, magical ****, immortal dragons, but not a single time have i heard the word "Living", anywhere.
    Even the god damn rats are undead

    ^I see what you did there, lol.

    You don't really hear much about the living because that is not the natural state of humans, if you watch the cinematics people were undead/hollowed before the First Flame gave them forged souls. It's almost as humans were simply an archetype which happen to have been ready to receive the Flame of Life.
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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by SpecialNewb on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:19 pm

    densetsushun wrote:Considering Gwyn kindled the First Flame himself, it seems unlikely that he were to do something as selfish as ask the Witch of Izalith to recreate the First Flame, the action of sacrificing himself for the Flame makes me think he's quite selfless.
    My personal theory is that the Witch of Izalith saw the Flame was going out, tried to make a new one and blew it. Then Demons started pouring out of Izalith and Gwyn had to do something to stop them. Thus the Black Knight weapons. In this scenario Gwyn doesn't have to know about what Izalith is doing. If he does, he realizes the plan failed and has to contain the fallout. Maybe he even had his knights on station just in case. If he doesn't he has to hurry and stop the Demons, perhaps asking Quelaag and her sister to guard the exit.

    Either the best plan he and Izalith could make failed or he realized he was running out of allies (Nito asleep, Seath going crazier). Regardless, despairing, he went to Link the Fire to give the survivors the time needed to find a solution. I think the Demon Ruins are the battlefield where those who became Black Knights fought the Demons.
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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:31 pm

    Has anyone considered that the Witch of Izalith might have attempted to recreate the First Flame before anyone else even knew the original was dying? Quellana does say that 'Mother's intentions were misguided, no doubt..."


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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:49 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Has anyone considered that the Witch of Izalith might have attempted to recreate the First Flame before anyone else even knew the original was dying? Quellana does say that 'Mother's intentions were misguided, no doubt..."

    Hm, seems possible, but what would be her "misguided intentions?" And who would have misguided her? We don't really know what the purpose of the Flame is, all we know is that it's there, but Quelana says, specifically, that:


    "My mother, the Witch of Izalith,
    was one of the Primeval Lords....
    Her power came from the soul
    that she found near the First Flame...
    She focused this power to light a flame of her own,
    but she failed to control it."


    So she found her flame, and not IN the Flame, but NEAR it. I've been laboring under the assumption that the Flame is the creator of souls, but what if something existed there BEFORE the flame but perished? Either due to creating the Flame, or Time, or even the coming of the Age of Ancients? We don't know, but she goes on to say that she focused the power in the soul that she found to attempt to create a Flame of her own...so this kinda leans me in the direction that the Flame is the creator of souls and she wanted that power...Imagine having the power to create your own Lord Souls, or even an army of servant souls.

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    Re: Flame from New Londo?

    Post by WandererReece on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:59 am

    ^ There goes my crazy idea.


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