SL 55 Why?

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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Emergence on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:29 pm

    Well as I said back then, we were inclined to keep it lower than something like 120 or 100, I personally don't have an issue with an 80 ledge if people feel it's not any extra effort, because ultimately we want to pick the ledge that will make the most possible people satisfied. We host these events to bring some fun to the community and we certainly aren't imposing our will or opinions on the meta. In practice there may not be much of a difference from 55 to 80, but at a glance it may seem like a large gap to someone and as such, we've been resistant to alienate anyone who sees things that way. We aim for the broadest possible participation for these events, so even though 80 would provide more variety we thought that there was enough variety at 55, while also having a more psychologically approachable number for someone new to PvP and build making. After the event, we can do a proper poll and then roll the results into how we plan the next one.

    In the meantime, let's just jump into the current ledge we set and go nuts having fun with it!


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:39 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Why?

    As I see it (and I've put several together) there are 2 effective build types at 55. Builds based on a single damage stat (str/dex/int/faith) which lack either or both hp and endurance, and vit based which use an elemental weapon or low scaling weapon like the gravelord sword.

    That seems to fly directly in the face of the varity that people here claim to value so much.

    Especially as you probably have to farm chunks anyways, finishing a build at sl 70 or 80 would take roughly the same amount of time. No extra work, just spending the souls that the chunk farming nets you.

    I completely agree, +1.

    Emergence wrote:The feedback thread from last event at this SL from
    all the participants was overwhelmingly positive and the builds that
    were used were very diverse. This is just a ledge that is the quickest
    to build to for anyone new to PvP who want to get their feet wet while
    also satisfying vets who are easily able to extract power from the
    ledge, and it's really the first ledge where specialization begins to
    emerge.

    I'm sorry Emergence, but as I pointed out in the event thread (post-event), EVERYONE were using elemental weapons. One or two greatswords (obviously elemental), most people used Elemental Balder Side sword, one used Gravelord Greatsword. Then there were people that used either Gold Tracer or Elemental Curved Sword. 1 guy used Chaos great Scythe (old, see it all the time).

    It's not varied man, maybe that's variety for you, but not for me, variety is seeing strange builds, like a bow glass cannon, pure casters (not rare, but fun to fight against), COSPLAY (no-existent in these events)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That kind of thing. Not everyone using the best elemental weapon of that weapon category, and enough armor for poise. At that low level, people aren't very encouraged to try new things, as most elemental weapons will *** them up without effort or stats.

    It's plain boring E, the only good thing about level 55 is that it takes less time. But for fun, 100 is way better, even 80 (85 IMO) is better like Pirate said.

    PS: A cosplay event would be a nice idea. What about the next event is a cospaly event, BUT we get to vote (as you said) the suggested level? I would say 70-75 is great for all kind of cosplay.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:54 pm

    I was in favor of a cosplay event as well, but I think some people were afraid that we might end up with 50 Ciaran's.

    I think that's unlikely and I believe it could be very fun indeed.

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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:57 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I was in favor of a cosplay event as well, but I think some people were afraid that we might end up with 50 Ciaran's.

    I think that's unlikely and I believe it could be very fun indeed.

    Lol you're right, it's very unlikely, after all, Ciaran's it's not as fun to play as it seems in duels (invasions are a whole other thing), and neither it's effective as other characters, many people care to win here (one of the reasons most used elemental weapons, though they don't admit it silly) so I guess once they try it they will realize how weak is in duels unless they use the Gold Tracer in the right hand and spam, but hey, that wouldn't be a true Ciaran!!!


    Last edited by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:58 pm

    Also it would be the perfect opportunity to make my Siegmeyer Cosplay build once and for all...


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:34 pm

    I was using a Divine Handaxe Chiz. sad
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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Emergence on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:Why?

    As I see it (and I've put several together) there are 2 effective build types at 55. Builds based on a single damage stat (str/dex/int/faith) which lack either or both hp and endurance, and vit based which use an elemental weapon or low scaling weapon like the gravelord sword.

    That seems to fly directly in the face of the varity that people here claim to value so much.

    Especially as you probably have to farm chunks anyways, finishing a build at sl 70 or 80 would take roughly the same amount of time. No extra work, just spending the souls that the chunk farming nets you.

    I completely agree, +1.

    Emergence wrote:The feedback thread from last event at this SL from
    all the participants was overwhelmingly positive and the builds that
    were used were very diverse. This is just a ledge that is the quickest
    to build to for anyone new to PvP who want to get their feet wet while
    also satisfying vets who are easily able to extract power from the
    ledge, and it's really the first ledge where specialization begins to
    emerge.

    I'm sorry Emergence, but as I pointed out in the event thread (post-event), EVERYONE were using elemental weapons. One or two greatswords (obviously elemental), most people used Elemental Balder Side sword, one used Gravelord Greatsword. Then there were people that used either Gold Tracer or Elemental Curved Sword. 1 guy used Chaos great Scythe (old, see it all the time).

    It's not varied man, maybe that's variety for you, but not for me, variety is seeing strange builds, like a bow glass cannon, pure casters (not rare, but fun to fight against), COSPLAY (no-existent in these events)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That kind of thing. Not everyone using the best elemental weapon of that weapon category, and enough armor for poise. At that low level, people aren't very encouraged to try new things, as most elemental weapons will *** them up without effort or stats.

    It's plain boring E, the only good thing about level 55 is that it takes less time. But for fun, 100 is way better, even 80 (85 IMO) is better like Pirate said.

    PS: A cosplay event would be a nice idea. What about the next event is a cospaly event, BUT we get to vote (as you said) the suggested level? I would say 70-75 is great for all kind of cosplay.

    Look I understand and respect the points in favor of 80 as very valid points indeed. But calling the current format boring or dull, I feel puts a damper on it. I would ask that we compartmentalize the issue and to jump in fully if you feel like you can extract fun from it, even if it is less than ideal to your standards.

    I would prefer that from hear on out, this thread focuses on presenting the merits of the 80 ledge instead of bashing the shortcomings of the 50.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:43 pm

    Don't get me wrong E, maybe "boring" was the wrong word, I mean, it's "not as fun" as it could be. I enjoy the events, but the low level cap to me just "limits" the amount of fun.

    Anyway I will probably assist, though I'm not sure. If I go, I will probably bring somekind of dual wielding dragon body guy.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:25 pm

    Right, Rancor, you're entitled to your opinion, but I spend the vast majority of my pvp time at 82 (so I can catch the sl 100s if I want to duel) and its by far the most entertaining pvp range I've been in. Reason is that pure melee builds can maximise their abilities, everybody else (ie hybrids and casters) have to sacrifice durability and/or endurance for their increased versatility and/or damage, so nobody is gimped.

    @d something (can't remember the spelling) If you're not rather good, no sl is going to level the playing field for you against the people who frequent this place. You might get a lucky win or two (like with blue shells in mario cart or the hammer in smash bros) but the better players are going to win anyways if they put forth the effort. At any sl, all you have to do is ask and the people here will probably go easy on you in the spirit of fun. They're awesome like that.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:31 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I was using a Divine Handaxe Chiz. sad

    I didn't fight with haha, I just got summoned by you and killed everyone else you summoned 8). Anyways you were an exception, along with Reaper (I think it was him?) that fought me with a whip and when he started loosing he pulled out a Dragon Greatsword lol.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm

    We could just alternate events, rather than having two 55's in a row we could have one 55 then one 80 then one 100 then one 120. Since these seem to be the most desired levels, and the levels at which most people have a character at, you could please all players. The new ones can participate in the 55, as can the vets and the vets can have a vet exclusive event at 120/100 which would include new players willing to test their metal. I understand that the logistics behind creating such events is excruciating, but it seems the only way to please everyone would be to host 3/4 different events. (And please, for the love of us Brits, hold your events a little earlier, I can't stay up 'till one am and play well, Around 3/4 EST would be fine, since that's around 10pm, I'm sure that I can't be the only one to have this qualm, the Europeans must have this same problem, if not, worse if I am understanding the timezones correctly)


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm

    @emergence Sorry, I'm not trying to cause problems or tell people that sl 55 isn't as good (thats preference) All I was initially saying is that there is a discrepancy between expressed values and the voting for sl55. If variety and creativity are the goals, the larger number of viable build types at a higher sl should offer more room for creativity and variety without compromising effectiveness, and that the time it takes to finish a sl 55 and a sl 80 is identical or extremely close in many cases. I'd even hazard a guess its true the majority of the time.

    That line of reasoning invalidates the expressed reasons (that I've seen) for choosing 55, so I asked (perhaps poorly) for additional reasons, beyond merely the word "preference" which is valid but doesn't help me understand.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:59 pm

    Personally I don't think we will see a whole lot of creativity in general. Because of the people playing. It's not that they're capable, it's that they're going to focus on what they consider best. I was more so just looking to have fun, it's why I had all divine weapons. I would have dealt more damage obviously with lightning ones, but I was just looking to use a faith build and I don't often use Divine weapons so I did.

    At any SL range, we probably won't see much variety unless people are actually willing to make fun builds and not ones that min/max.
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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:17 pm

    I just prefer it be SL 55-60 since so many of the player-made events are already using that SL set. I just started on my first SL 60 for the Painted World Guerrilla Warfare event and to be able to play with the Darkstalkers and Exiled of Ariamis-and now I'm going to be 5 SLs over, as I imagine some Darkstalkers will be.


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