SL 55 Why?

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    SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:02 am

    Why?

    As I see it (and I've put several together) there are 2 effective build types at 55. Builds based on a single damage stat (str/dex/int/faith) which lack either or both hp and endurance, and vit based which use an elemental weapon or low scaling weapon like the gravelord sword.

    That seems to fly directly in the face of the varity that people here claim to value so much.

    Especially as you probably have to farm chunks anyways, finishing a build at sl 70 or 80 would take roughly the same amount of time. No extra work, just spending the souls that the chunk farming nets you.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:19 am

    Because it's the Darkstalkers' SL and the admins have a conspiracy to promote the SL lol.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:21 am

    I actually almost posted something very similar earlier this evening when I noticed the event Pirate. I'd have liked to participate in both of these events, but I just don't have toons that fulfill that SL requirement, and I'm not going to erase any of my PvP builds, or deal with creating a new profile simply to do it. Seems to me that most of us shoot for somewhere near 100 anyway. Don't see how that'd be so bad.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Emergence on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:31 am

    The feedback thread from last event at this SL from all the participants was overwhelmingly positive and the builds that were used were very diverse. This is just a ledge that is the quickest to build to for anyone new to PvP who want to get their feet wet while also satisfying vets who are easily able to extract power from the ledge, and it's really the first ledge where specialization begins to emerge.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:34 am

    I agree with Pirate's point but I believe the thinking is that at lower SL players will have an easier time rolling out event builds.

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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:41 am

    Well, if my vote counts for anything, it's for a higher SL next time. That way those of us short on time or space, who have stocks of builds in said range, can participate.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:57 am

    There are already a surplus of sl 100-120 build events though, if anything I'd like to see the events moved to 70-80, but I am quite enjoying having a use for my sl 55 build, and the last event was fairly varied from what I experienced. Not to mention it takes about a quarter of the time to go from start to 55 while still having the resources to buy buffs, grass, arrows or whatever else you desire. If anyone would like help making a sl55 I can offer weapons or armour since I have most sets fully upgraded already on my 120 host, who can summon anyone through a RSS.

    I for one am very happy we finally have some low level events.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:11 am

    ^ All the events I've tried to take part in have gone pretty much the same. I've ended up fighting maybe one person, then everyone seems to lose interest and nothing further really happens. I seem to be in the minority here though.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:07 am

    I'm going to guess that there wasn't actually much build varity in the event. I'd bet there were essentially 3 successful stat distributions. ~30hp/~20 end/40 damage stat, ~20 hp/~30end/40 damage stat and 40+hp/30+end/base requirements. Some variation for weapon or weight requirements but not much.

    there was just a good deal of setup (ie gear) variety which is bound to happen at any sl as we all play a lot and have prefered weapons picked based on things other than ease of use (ease of use which is the cause of katana/darkmagic/greatsword prevolance)


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:09 am

    I was one of the few who made a pure mage at 36 Int. However I had base End and like 30 Vit.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:17 am

    Plastic, you just need to find an amazing host like me, who has people flock to them... *glances at roulette thread* ... I'm so lonely... sad

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm going to guess that there wasn't actually much build variety in the event. I'd bet there were essentially 3 successful stat distributions. ~30hp/~20 end/40 damage stat, ~20 hp/~30end/40 damage stat and 40+hp/30+end/base requirements.

    Well, the same could be said of most 100-120 builds there are really only a few varients: 45-50 vit 30-40 end and 80 in damaging stats or 45 in dex and a magic stat... or investing more in end to use heavy armours and fast roll. Its not a very fair generalization, the only thing making a build unique is really the item use in the end, not the stat spread there are just too few stats to invest in to make that the real "unique" deciding factor. Maybe that's just my opinion though.

    I didn't get to fight wyrm, but I did see a few magic casters of my own as well. I didn't see any faith though. And logically there was pyro as well.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:39 am

    I rolled an ele build because that's what I had for the Darkstalkers. Next time, I may have something a little different in store.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:49 am

    But at 70-90 viable hybrids become a factor, dramatically increasing the number of viable stat spreads (as requirements have to be met for secondary skills, if any) and the resulting in more divers setups.

    At 55 its I can do 1 thing
    At 70-90 its I can do anything
    At 120+ its I can do everything.

    As such, because every build type is both viable and competitive (where at 120+ a pure build is gimped by diminishing returns) there are inevitably more viable options across the board.

    For sl 80 the viable stat spreads I'm aware of are:
    ~40vit/~40end/40damage stat
    ~30vit/~30end/~30 in 2 damage stats
    ~30vit/~30end/~20 damage stat/~40 damage stat
    50+vit/40+end/base requirements
    ~40vit/~20end/~40damage stats
    ~20vit/~40end/~40damage stats
    ~20vit/~20end/ damage stat spreads ~40/40/30, ~30/30/50, ~20/40/50

    These are all approximations, but thats 9 basic spreads as opposed to 3. Build variety is real.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:01 am

    You're right Forum, I personally prefer SL 70-80 for these types of things, or even 100, but we had a whole thread where we voted for the official SL and it was decided to keep it the same.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:04 am

    I didn't realize you were talking about 70-90 specifically in your post, so yeah I agree there would be more hybrid builds at those levels there. But if you consider strictly hybrids its not hard to make a quality, or a combination of str/magic/faith/pyro at 55 its not impossible, it certainly won't hit as hard as a sl 70 and up equivalent, but the fighters also have reduced HP.

    I'd like to see more 70-90 sl events too, but it still stands that it's much faster to make a 55 in short notice than it is to make a sl 90. Which does make it an appealing factor to new fighters, as Emergence pointed out.

    TLDR: I agree with you, but I want to bask in my sl 55 forum member duels just a little longer, pretty please?


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:11 am

    I have a tracer build at SL 55 that has 37 dex and decent vitality.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:20 am

    After all the gear farming, its not faster at all. Just in chunk farming and story progress I hit 76 in roughly 5 hours. I'm by no means pve king either. By the time one gets maxed gear (unless they use twinkling or demon weapons) they're already up to speed.

    As for the vote, I can't argue with it, but I can strive to inform the voters so at least if the choose 55 its not because of a false percption of build speed.

    @reim yeah that probably fits the 30/20/40 model. Edited for temporary math fail.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:30 am

    You're right about the farming too, I hit 55 way before I have maxed gear and in the process of getting it I can go higher. Usual level seems to be around 80 after clearing a couple Lord Areas.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:53 am

    I don't see a problem in variety on SL 55. In the Battle of Sen's, there were mostly elementals (at least those that I fought against were), but the variety came from their gear and playstyle.

    Also, when I saw a caster, or a buffer, I instantly knew, that they will have low End and Vit and I tried to exploit that against them. That's actualy something I liked.

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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:48 am

    Thats still true at sl 80. At a glance I know my opponents likely stats and potential strengths/weaknesses, and if I take a hit I can be very sure of their general layout)

    There would be more variety at 80, as more strategies and build types are viable without one being dominant. As it takes the same amount of time to build, and there's more variety (and, again, many here have spent a long time complaining about a lack of variety,) then why choose 55 for organised events? Its the same amount of work with LESS variety. (I haven't actually seen you complain about variety that I can think of, so the variety argument wasn't necessarily aimed at you. I'm not naming names, though several come to mind, and these are some of the same people who vote for sl55.)


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Baal-Avatar on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:20 am

    Like E mentioned, from the feedback we received, there are many people who are interested in keeping the soul level lower for this event. The goal is to make this event open for the largest population in the forums. This is just a way to hopefully get as many people from the forums to participate, have fun and meet people.

    All of that being said, we know there is interest and we are definitely open to trying higher soul levels for future events. This is just a way for all of us to have some fun and fight in a very cool area. We would like it if you all came down and participated and had a good time.

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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by raecor14 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:25 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats still true at sl 80. At a glance I know my opponents likely stats and potential strengths/weaknesses, and if I take a hit I can be very sure of their general layout)

    There would be more variety at 80, as more strategies and build types are viable without one being dominant. As it takes the same amount of time to build, and there's more variety (and, again, many here have spent a long time complaining about a lack of variety,) then why choose 55 for organised events? Its the same amount of work with LESS variety. (I haven't actually seen you complain about variety that I can think of, so the variety argument wasn't necessarily aimed at you. I'm not naming names, though several come to mind, and these are some of the same people who vote for sl55.)

    you would think SL 80 was better but trust me it sucks, you either miss out on something or have to much left over.


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by drmuto on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:52 am

    i much prefer lower sl as im not nearly as good as some of the other players, at lower sl's it evens the playing field a bit so those like me stand a chance. there is tons of variety still at sl 55 sure you might have to sacrifice more but that's the game stop complaining and play.
    TL:DR- stop complaining


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by Carphil on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:57 am

    The good thing about SL55 is that I'm not humiliated by being the only one med rolling Shrug


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    Re: SL 55 Why?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:26 am

    Yukon wrote:Plastic, you just need to find an amazing host like me, who has people flock to them... *glances at roulette thread* ... I'm so lonely... sad

    Exactly. I've definitely been in a couple of those rooms. I've said my piece now though. My vote is for higher next time. I'm not super upset about it being low again this time, but my vote is definitely for higher next time though.


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