My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

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    WandererReece
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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by WandererReece on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:58 pm

    Sentiel wrote:
    Spoiler:


    lol!


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by lextune on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:13 pm

    Ha! Instant classic! silly


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:42 pm

    I agree with Forum about invaders. Well, not that their feelings are irrelevant. I'll resort to what it takes to win, with a few exceptions. First, I won't chain stab (unless it happens to me). Second, I usually don't heal. If it is one on one, I'll treat it more like a duel. But, if there is a phantom, I'll "hide" behind enemies. Kinda evens out the playing field (except the enemies are easier to kill than phantoms). That is part of the game and helps even out the balance by having the ability to summon phantoms.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:11 am

    I think OP meant to rant against bad hosts more than bad invaders... Otherwise I'll have a thing or two to say about the necessity of invaders and balancing the game. silly But seriously, there's a reason why these hosts summoning in the first place! If you want to blame someone for their incompetence, blame over-competent phantoms and their over-abundance. How is a host supposed to get good when phantoms are stomping the game for him? That's why I choose to invade.


    My rant about red phantoms:

    WHERE ARE THEY?? Nearly finished making my new build, gone through almost the entire game, always in body form, not even invaded ONCE. I mean come on, wtf, where are all the reds at?? I was a bit underleveled, but still, I should've been invaded at least once... sad


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:16 am

    BLA1NE wrote:
    WHERE ARE THEY?? Nearly finished making my new build, gone through almost the entire game, always in body form, not even invaded ONCE. I mean come on, wtf, where are all the reds at?? I was a bit underleveled, but still, I should've been invaded at least once... sad

    There, there, I'm sure Kirk's happy to keep you company.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by GrinTwist on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:25 am

    I'm opposed to the message of this thread. I mean if every new player already plays like a veteran when it comes to invaders I'm not going to have as much fun invading.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:27 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:
    WHERE ARE THEY?? Nearly finished making my new build, gone through almost the entire game, always in body form, not even invaded ONCE. I mean come on, wtf, where are all the reds at?? I was a bit underleveled, but still, I should've been invaded at least once... sad

    There, there, I'm sure Kirk's happy to keep you company.
    Yeah, at least there was him... but the bastard has no humanity to suck! And he's a total pushover...


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Coryf2209 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:29 am

    But theres three of him. You can always count on the trio de kirque. And let's not forget eats-too-much mildred, and xanthous king jerememiah.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:09 am

    You guys forgot LEEERROOYY JENK... ughhh... I mean Leeroy.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:15 am

    I don't heal unless there are 2+ of them or they heal, because its easy to get reliant on it, and I don't chain bs because I don't want to get pivot parried and die, wakeup deadangles are safer.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by CappuccinoJak on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:19 am

    one thing i never understood is why people think it's cheap for invaders to "hide" behind enemies. the host gets to summon two bros to help him/her out and invaders don't get anyone, not even fellow invaders!
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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:28 am

    There can be 2 invaders, at least sometimes, but generally its me vs 2 or 3 people.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by CappuccinoJak on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:53 am

    even if there are multiple invaders, they're all still enemies technically (since you can kill each other)....i always treat fellow invaders as enemies and kill 'em 1st so they don't get me lol
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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:10 am

    CappuccinoJak wrote:one thing i never understood is why people think it's cheap for invaders to "hide" behind enemies. the host gets to summon two bros to help him/her out and invaders don't get anyone, not even fellow invaders!
    If it's 1v1 it is cheap.
    If it's 1v2/3, there's nothing wrong with it.

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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by CappuccinoJak on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:26 am

    Sentiel wrote:If it's 1v1 it is cheap.
    If it's 1v2/3, there's nothing wrong with it.

    i rarely pvp (due to me being awful at it lol) but when i do, i'm gonna do everything i can to kill them and i assume they're gonna come at me with the same intent. although i've recently started invading just to throw prism stones all day
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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:56 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    CappuccinoJak wrote:one thing i never understood is why people think it's cheap for invaders to "hide" behind enemies. the host gets to summon two bros to help him/her out and invaders don't get anyone, not even fellow invaders!
    If it's 1v1 it is cheap.
    If it's 1v2/3, there's nothing wrong with it.
    How so? Because it gives the invader an advantage? The host has eusts, which amounts to between 5 and 20 extra lives depending on flask strength and number, and its faster than humanity (which they could have on hand as well.) They also have the option to run for a summon, giving them a very big advantage as well.

    1v1=/= duel. Its an invasion. There is no cheap, there is no fair, there are predators and prey.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:17 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    CappuccinoJak wrote:one thing i never understood is why people think it's cheap for invaders to "hide" behind enemies. the host gets to summon two bros to help him/her out and invaders don't get anyone, not even fellow invaders!
    If it's 1v1 it is cheap.
    If it's 1v2/3, there's nothing wrong with it.
    How so? Because it gives the invader an advantage? The host has eusts, which amounts to between 5 and 20 extra lives depending on flask strength and number, and its faster than humanity (which they could have on hand as well.) They also have the option to run for a summon, giving them a very big advantage as well.

    1v1=/= duel. Its an invasion. There is no cheap, there is no fair, there are predators and prey.
    Exactly it isn't a duel, so it's more than likely that the host will not be prepared to PvP, because he's questing.

    Host can Estus? Lloyd's. That's why it's there.
    Humanity? Both can do that, or you can just backstab.
    Unless they start to chomp on Divine Blessings it's all ok.

    If it's 1v1, hiding behind mobs is just as cheap as summoning phantoms. While phantoms are humans and are much more dangerous than mobs, mobs are greater in number and when combined with the invader, they are more than enough to challenge a three player group.

    That doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it. Invaders can do whatever pleases them, except for running around naked and doing the Trident Dance, that's just :Baal01: .

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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:26 am

    I couldn't care less if got ganked in every invasion or every invader ran to the enemies in the area while I'm hosting. I don't care if they are all laggy BS fishers that heal when I'm on the ground. I wouldn't care if everyone started using TWoP and Dark Bead. As long as they are not hacking or modding the game, I am fine with it. All of these things are in the game, who is to say that they cannot be used?


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by sure-magicians on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:30 am

    I think most of this depends on factors you can't control, when I first started online I used to really hate it when I was invaded, it almost ruined my day when it happened.
    Now that I'm a little bit more prepared I don't mind, it's what From intended.
    It adds a whole different layer of gameplay, running through a level knowing someone can invade, makes it more exciting, for me at least.
    Have enough, go hollow or offline, easy as that.

    In the DeS manual From even states the the host can summon 2(!) phantom to help defeat the invader, and I think it's evenly balanced.
    There are no cheap tactics, it is all as it was intended to be...
    And it is a game, don't take it too seriously anyway, my 2 cents.

    tl:dr all is fair game in an invasion, and new people learn quickly when invaded enough, at least I did Well What is it


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Walter_White on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:33 am

    to OP: still not enough of this for your post



    seriously: as a Phantom you have to teach them how to deal with Invaders and protect them with everything you have. If the host dies, it's your fault - you're not good enough to protect him!
    Don't blame the host, blame yourself and try to make it better. You don't lose anything, the host is in danger to lose his solus/humantiy. And you are not there for the souls or the humanity you get from the boss, you are there to protect your host, even if you spend more souls in consumables than you get out of that coop session.
    I hope you understood the message - i hate Phantoms who are only there for their needs and don't care about the host, they are worse than invader.

    I played that style a long while as a sunbro, always dropped Tintanite, Humanity, etc. for the host, before the fight starts. Forget your selfish definition of "helping".


    Now i took the wrong path and spread terror in Anor Londo as a Darkwraith.....don't tell us what to do, and what not to do - that won't work!
    If i invade someone has to die and i don't care how (no BS don't like that style).
    Well in most cases my burning Zweihander+15 will stomp him into the ground twisted


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:53 am

    If the host isn't prepared for pvp they deserve to be mualed by somebody who is.

    As for loyds, so? Mobs arn't hostile to invaders. Guess why. So invaders can use them to their advantage.


    Definition of CHEAP

    1
    a : purchasable below the going price or the real value
    b : charging or obtainable at a low price
    c : depreciated in value (as by currency inflation)
    2
    : gained or done with little effort

    3
    a : of inferior quality or worth : tawdry, sleazy
    b : contemptible because of lack of any fine, lofty, or redeeming qualities
    c : stingy
    4
    of money : obtainable at a low rate of interest

    Nothing there implies that hiding behind mobs or summoning is cheap, as the amount of effort put into the fight isn't determined by those things. A 2v1 victory could be just as hard fought and valuable as a 1v3 victory, especially as value is subjective here.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:14 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:If the host isn't prepared for pvp they deserve to be mualed by somebody who is.

    As for loyds, so? Mobs arn't hostile to invaders. Guess why. So invaders can use them to their advantage.

    Define cheap for me.
    I didn't say they don't. They do. It's a part of the game to go and hunt those poor souls.

    If the invader is outnumbered, or outmatched, using mobs to level the playing field is perfectly normal and I have no problems with it.
    Using mobs to gain unescesarry advantage, or to grief host, that is what I call being cheap.

    If that wasn't enough for a definiton of cheap, I can also try to form it another way and perhaps it will serve the purpose better.

    Purposely doing something that creates situations, which are difficult, if not outright impossible to deal with, which are then used to gain an advantage over another player and can be done repeatedly, or have a permanent effect.

    A few examples:
    1v2/3/1+mobs
    TWoP + DA WoG
    Glitching and exploiting flawed game mechanics

    EDITED


    Last edited by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:50 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Better phrasing 1.2)

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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:36 pm

    I don't consider any tactic in Dark Souls as cheap.

    It is an educational opportunity. :cyclops:
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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:38 pm


    We, including me, aren’t being fair to the OP. He does have a point. Some hosts do need to be more cautious when going through a new area. The second thing I learned was to always keep your shield up. Also, some invaders do need to stop being jerks. It’s called sportsmanship.

    Remember your first time playing this game? Remember being owned by the Black Knight in the Burg? Remember being cursed in the Depths and not having Purging Stones? Remember not having the Rusted Iron Ring when going through the Poison Swamp? Remember not being able to defeat other players, even the nice ones?

    Now remember those jerks that invaded you during your first time playing, especially in the Burg, Parish, and Depths. They had Lightning and Chaos weapons. Weapons you couldn’t get yet. Some people claim it’s ok to use them against newbies. They have 2 main arguments.



    1. “Lightning and Chaos weapons are not overpowered because of the split damage. They are even less overpowered now because of patch 1.06.”

    After patch 1.07 I created a brand new character and went to the Burg. My first invader used a Lightning Hand Axe. It killed me in two non – critical, non – counter hits. The forum’s current definition of overpowered is something that kills an enemy in one or two hits.



    2. “They earned those weapons. They have the right to use them however they want.”

    I earned the money I used to buy my handgun. Does that mean I can use it to shoot kids in the park?



    People need to remember what it was like to play the game for the very first time. They need to remember how challenging it used to be. They need to remember all those overpowered jerks that invaded them when they only had + 5 weapons. I know they have these memories, because all players are not born with Dark Souls knowledge. This means all players, even experienced ones, used to be newbies.


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    Re: My rant about red phantoms! and stupid hosts -.-

    Post by EeAyEss on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:33 pm

    Some hosts are clumsy, yes. Some darkwraiths are @#!*% , yes.


    Some hosts are NEW. Some darkwraiths INVADE TO KILL.

    INVADE TO KILL.

    INVADE TO KILL

    INVADE TO KILL.


    INVADE

    TO

    KILL

    Why? Listen to Lunar Fog's theme song:



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