Shields can both parry and bash

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    Oh_the_Humanity
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    Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:06 pm

    The ability to parry and bash for all medium to small sized shields could be easily implemented into Dark Souls 2.
    Obviously the greatshield's wouldn't change.
    It could fit into the controls very naturally by
    holding block and pressing. So Block + L2 = Bash
    and parry is still just L2.
    Simple!
    What do you think?


    Last edited by Oh_the_Humanity on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by FattyOfDoom on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:12 pm

    It's L2 that parries.

    But i would like this but small shields shouldn't be able to bash, only medium to heavy shields can.

    I'd like to see this in the new Souls game


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:15 pm

    FattyOfDoom wrote:It's L2 that parries.

    But i would like this but small shields shouldn't be able to bash, only medium to heavy shields can.

    I'd like to see this in the new Souls game

    oops, Ill fix that thanks!

    I think there's nothing wrong with small shield bashing. The spiked shield could, and if they could both do it then it shouldn't really matter to much.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:12 pm

    forward + L1 how hard can that be that?


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:25 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:forward + L1 how hard can that be that?
    I really like that way of doing it too.
    Plus it goes along with the "foot bash"


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Buggy Virus on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:48 am

    Sure why not.

    No one bashes anyways though.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by emraluces on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:51 am

    I have to disagree. Using the smaller shields allows you to parry, no doubt. But using small shields also 'forfeits' the ability to bash. This is how it should stay, and I think From thinks so too. Every item in the game has its strengths and weaknesses. If you're using light gear you SHOULD be forfeiting stability. If you're using heavy weapons or armor, you SHOULD be forfeiting speed or control.

    Make your choice, light and swift but physically weaker, or strong and stout yet slower and clumsier.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Buggy Virus on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:00 am

    emraluces wrote:I have to disagree. Using the smaller shields allows you to parry, no doubt. But using small shields also 'forfeits' the ability to bash. This is how it should stay, and I think From thinks so too. Every item in the game has its strengths and weaknesses. If you're using light gear you SHOULD be forfeiting stability. If you're using heavy weapons or armor, you SHOULD be forfeiting speed or control.

    Make your choice, light and swift but physically weaker, or strong and stout yet slower and clumsier.

    Is the shield bash a strength now?


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by emraluces on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:07 am

    Depends on one's play style.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:09 am

    emraluces wrote:I have to disagree. Using the smaller shields allows you to parry, no doubt. But using small shields also 'forfeits' the ability to bash. This is how it should stay, and I think From thinks so too. Every item in the game has its strengths and weaknesses. If you're using light gear you SHOULD be forfeiting stability. If you're using heavy weapons or armor, you SHOULD be forfeiting speed or control.

    Make your choice, light and swift but physically weaker, or strong and stout yet slower and clumsier.

    I would disagree. Look at the Silver Knights. They can bash just fine with their shields why shouldn't the player character be able to do so with the same exact shield?

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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:18 am

    Buggy Virus wrote:
    emraluces wrote:I have to disagree. Using the smaller shields allows you to parry, no doubt. But using small shields also 'forfeits' the ability to bash. This is how it should stay, and I think From thinks so too. Every item in the game has its strengths and weaknesses. If you're using light gear you SHOULD be forfeiting stability. If you're using heavy weapons or armor, you SHOULD be forfeiting speed or control.

    Make your choice, light and swift but physically weaker, or strong and stout yet slower and clumsier.

    Is the shield bash a strength now?





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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by emraluces on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:30 am

    Well, this is just my opinion of course, but even though some enemies like the balder knights have a special shield attack as well as the silver knights, it seems clear that the developers intend on forcing the player to chose which shield ability they want to use by choosing a shield type. It would seem as though From was very aware that they in no way want the player to have the ability to bash AND parry with a shield, so as to FORCE the player to decide which tactic they would like to focus on in regards to their play style. I, personally, think this is the right decision, as well as the one that fits best with the souls series. It's supposed to be hard, and you must chose how you will beat it. If you're going to use a specific tactic, then other tactics will be unavailable to you. I think this is the right way to go. I wish more games employed this tactic.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:48 am

    Medium shields can shield bash in actual combat. The advantage of a greatshield is that it has a higher stability and that it has a wider range of blocking capability. (dead-angling is much harder) While, yes, I agree about that having a trade-off is something I like, I think shield bashing specifically shouldn't be part of that trade-off.
    In regards to Buggy and Sloth; shield bashing really hasn't been done well thus far; it's just usually not as valueable as the ability to parry and the only shields that even have been able to bash either don't block all damage or are too big and heavy for lighter builds. I think bashing can (and I hope it becomes) a viable tactic; as it currently is, it usually isn't.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:40 am

    ^ I agree.
    I think bashing could be a more viable tactic if it could be a alternative "kick" like attack, not replace it but to be able to break ones guard.
    At the moment no one used the bash, so adding to shields that also parry and giving it the ability to break guards may add to its usability in PVP.
    I think From should pick which ones to give both parry and bash, not to make it the same for every shield. Plus the control for it fits quite perfectly, weather its, block + L2 = Bash or like kick is used and push forward and press L2, the second one is a better fit IMO.
    I think you should also be able to let one go on someones face after a successful parry. Proper Bow :Baal01: Look Skyward


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Buggy Virus on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:56 pm

    Ok, yes, bashing could be improved.

    Right now, it's really worthless. Not having enough poise break, being too slow and doing too little damage, so that kicking will always be more effective even if it does no damage.

    (Believe me, I tried for a very long time to make it viable)


    If shields across the board lost significant stability, but greatshields lesser so, then the increased stability of a greatshield would make up for the loss of parry even if medium shields could both back and parry.

    Bash would need improvement though.

    And shields really should block less physical and have less stability across the bored. Right now they are just crutches.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Kuragari on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:01 pm

    i like it, but i think it should be block+L2 to parry, and bash should be just L2...just to make things more difficult maybe...i dunno


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:01 pm

    Interesting idea. I dont mind either way.

    Off topic, I think the easiest way to make shield bashing viable, would be to make them combo with your weapon in an speedy manner.
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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Seignar on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:29 pm

    My view on this is that:

    1. Small shields can parry better.
    2. Medium Shields should have a stricter parry window (Demon Souls) [A.K.A: Nerf parry], their L1 + forward is a shield bash
    3. Heavy shields should have stronger shield bashes.

    ...and with that, shield bashes REALLY need a buff. Anything a kick can do, a bash does less of (save for damage). Like, bashes really need to work like how Black Knights do it, they just break your stamina. Before we even talk about giving shields the ability to bash, we should talk about how Bash should be buffed...

    Hypocrite.

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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:33 pm

    One of the most major problems with shield bashing as it currently is is that everyone is so maneuverable. Shield bashing will never hit an person who's backpeddling because the character stops before they shield bash; by the time the character is attacking, the other player is out of range. Ultimately, shield bashing will need to either be much faster or more maneuverable to be effective.


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    Re: Shields can both parry and bash

    Post by Seignar on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:53 pm

    Bashing should cause the player to lunge forward more or less how Knights do it. Enemies have great bashes because they take a step forward and their speed in comparison to ours is untouched.

    I think that the balance key in maintaining equal usefulness between bashes and kicks is make bashes better against turtling and kicking better against tanks. The one thing we need to decide tho, is whether or not bashes should be parry-able and if the animation carries auto-block frames (Both are qualities the current shields possess).


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