Change Rapiers

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    Johnthethird
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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Johnthethird on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 pm

    How about most rapiers are where you just keep the traditional 2 handing technique, and then they add a "duelist" rapier where you just hold the rapier differently by pressing Y.
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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:38 pm

    No, all that survives are more recent forms of civilian forms, most of which are made for back swords and small swords, and even those only exist for thrusting swords. The closest thing to actual Western martial arts from the Renaissance and earlier are educated guesses based on books and art, not actual teaching.
    And, yes, you are going to war; mobs. Besides, those dueling techniques are from another technological and cultural era entirely. Knights were obsolete, the feudal system had collapsed and chain mail had LONG since been completely replaced by that point. That's a different time and cultural period from what From has thus far set the Souls series in. Some cultures even specifically designed civilian dueling (for example, the British) to NOT kill because killing man in a duel was a crime punishable by death. The character is not an arrogant peasant, flailing a fake weapon around until a real soldier comes along and kills him/her; s/he is a warrior, dropped into a world swarming with undead and worse coming at you to eat, crush, burn and in general, kill you in a myriad of painful ways. Civilian duels don't mix well with that.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Johnthethird on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:06 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:No, all that survives are more recent forms of civilian forms, most of which are made for back swords and small swords, and even those only exist for thrusting swords. The closest thing to actual Western martial arts from the Renaissance and earlier are educated guesses based on books and art, not actual teaching.
    And, yes, you are going to war; mobs. Besides, those dueling techniques are from another technological and cultural era entirely. Knights were obsolete, the feudal system had collapsed and chain mail had LONG since been completely replaced by that point. That's a different time and cultural period from what From has thus far set the Souls series in. Some cultures even specifically designed civilian dueling (for example, the British) to NOT kill because killing man in a duel was a crime punishable by death. The character is not an arrogant peasant, flailing a fake weapon around until a real soldier comes along and kills him/her; s/he is a warrior, dropped into a world swarming with undead and worse coming at you to eat, crush, burn and in general, kill you in a myriad of painful ways. Civilian duels don't mix well with that.
    Lets be realistic now. Some dueling weapons were meant to be fake, but the majority were meant to kill. And no you are not going to war. One person wandering around a land with hostiles is not war. Also, rapiers in general were not weapons meant for fighting in a war. Or meant to be held in 2 hands. I am aware that they were sometimes carried as secondaries, but they would be relatively useless in an actual battlefield.

    Even if you are fighting hoards, it is not the same as a war.

    Besides. Rapiers are 1 handed weapons. So it makes sense that if you press Y, instead of 2 handing it, you would just go into a mode where you're only using it. You would have a hand behind your back, so that it does not interfere with your rapier hand, and you would have more moves with the extra buttons.
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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:24 pm

    Oh GOD, blue text. My eyes hurt when I look at that. Anyways, I agree that two-handing is unrealistic for rapiers and that an alternative will be better. Rapiers were actual battlefield weapons, though; it was smallswords and backswords that weren't. And Dark Souls is more akin to warfare than to dueling; they combat is not one on one, it does not have honor codes and rules and it often includes armor and more killing-focused arms. The type of combat in war and the type of combat in duels are different; regardless of the numbers, Dark Souls uses a war combat mindset and setting, not a dueling one. It is simple, pragmatic, and without rules; there is no such thing as fair and unfair, or agreements, bystanders and honor. Anything goes and the objective is to kill and survive. That is the world of war, not of dueling.
    Anyways, let's get back to talking about what IS a good replacement for two-handing rapiers. As I've suggested in other threads, I think having multiple attuneable stances is a good idea.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Johnthethird on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:31 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Oh GOD, blue text. My eyes hurt when I look at that. Anyways, I agree that two-handing is unrealistic for rapiers and that an alternative will be better. Rapiers were actual battlefield weapons, though; it was smallswords and backswords that weren't. And Dark Souls is more akin to warfare than to dueling; they combat is not one on one, it does not have honor codes and rules and it often includes armor and more killing-focused arms. The type of combat in war and the type of combat in duels are different; regardless of the numbers, Dark Souls uses a war combat mindset and setting, not a dueling one. It is simple, pragmatic, and without rules; there is no such thing as fair and unfair, or agreements, bystanders and honor. Anything goes and the objective is to kill and survive. That is the world of war, not of dueling.
    Anyways, let's get back to talking about what IS a good replacement for two-handing rapiers. As I've suggested in other threads, I think having multiple attuneable stances is a good idea.
    I thought that sabers and katanas were types of backswords. But okay. we both agree that 2 handing is unrealistic.
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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:48 pm

    Some sabers are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre
    Katanas are not. Katanas are akin to curved bastard swords. On that note, bastard swords really shouldn't fight like greatswords; they're a class all their own, something between arming swords and greatswords. Backswords are generally a Western and Middle-Eastern class of weapons; that term doesn't really apply to much from the East. The East was drastically behind technologically from the Middle East and Europe during the Early Modern and Modern periods for the most part, until European nations began launching colonial invasions across the world. Eastern weapons, especially Japanese (considering their long period of isolation prior to Commodore Perry) ones, are generally a different class of swords altogether. They also had a very different warfront considering the huge difference in armor between Europe and Asia, so what weapons and techniques were pragmatic were different from the other. The weapons of each were for different purposes, and so there is difficulty classifying them together.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:51 pm


    I think multiple stances to choose from would be better than just 1/2 handing. If we make them attunable, like Arcantia suggests, then we could either buy them from NPC's, get them from beating bosses(like Artorias) or there could be an system where if you kill someone with a certain move then you have the chance to learn it if you're using the same weapon type(sort of like how it was done in the first digimon world). There should probably a stat to decide how many stances you can carry. I'm not sure what to call it, but it should replace resistance.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:54 pm

    More people writing in different colors?

    Good thing I'm smart enough to highlight


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:17 am

    Yeah, I highlight for certain colors. Yellow and blue, mostly.
    I think it will be cool to have stances depend on either Intelligence or Attunement. There will be balancing problems with Intelligence since it determines magic, though. (unless they bring back magic as a stat) I like having my characters with a decent intelligence (above a 7 or 8 ._.) regardless of whether they cast sorceries or not. Attunement can determine slots for stances as a different set from spells, too. Or they can add a new stat; I prefer not, though.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:06 am

    They should accomplish jack squat against scale armor (though thats a complaint from demons)


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:51 am

    Oh, how I miss miss my Mirdan armor and Mirdan Hammer sad


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Johnthethird on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:11 am

    Acarnatia wrote:Some sabers are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre
    Katanas are not. Katanas are akin to curved bastard swords. On that note, bastard swords really shouldn't fight like greatswords; they're a class all their own, something between arming swords and greatswords. Backswords are generally a Western and Middle-Eastern class of weapons; that term doesn't really apply to much from the East. The East was drastically behind technologically from the Middle East and Europe during the Early Modern and Modern periods for the most part, until European nations began launching colonial invasions across the world. Eastern weapons, especially Japanese (considering their long period of isolation prior to Commodore Perry) ones, are generally a different class of swords altogether. They also had a very different warfront considering the huge difference in armor between Europe and Asia, so what weapons and techniques were pragmatic were different from the other. The weapons of each were for different purposes, and so there is difficulty classifying them together.
    Y[color=indigo]eah I took a class on fighting with hand and a half swords. I didn't stay for very long, but yeah they are much different from how they are portrayed in the game[/color]
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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:01 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    I think multiple stances to choose from would be better than just 1/2 handing. If we make them attunable, like Arcantia suggests, then we could either buy them from NPC's, get them from beating bosses(like Artorias) or there could be an system where if you kill someone with a certain move then you have the chance to learn it if you're using the same weapon type(sort of like how it was done in the first digimon world). There should probably a stat to decide how many stances you can carry. I'm not sure what to call it, but it should replace resistance.

    Stances get very confusing very fast. It would be interesting, I just wouldn't expect it since it would mean making multiple movesets for every single weapon.


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:36 pm



    Any questions?

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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:48 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:
    Any questions?

    Your avatar... :shock:
    lol


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:50 pm

    She's the BIG TIME MASTER of the playground.

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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:51 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:She's the BIG TIME MASTER of the playground.

    lol!


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    Re: Change Rapiers

    Post by hageshisa on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:57 pm

    I like the attuned stances idea. It could actually be good : D


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