Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Share
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:43 pm

    Right, the word shi can mean either 4 or death.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    hey its andres
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1044
    Reputation : 32
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Garden, California

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:06 pm

    Carphil wrote:I loved that Pic big grin


    It makes perfectly sense. But what I don't get it is why Ciaran and Gough went to Oolice as well


    I mean, Artorias is the only one who "can" fight the abyss


    I already forgot everything that Gough' says to you, and the only reason Ciaran followed Artorias its because she was in love with him.


    I know that someone already posted this on the archives but I'm lazy :bas:

    Well when he makes the covenant with the abyss isn't that when he's already fallen to it?
    avatar
    GenericUsername
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 443
    Reputation : 21
    Join date : 2012-12-20
    Age : 23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by GenericUsername on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:35 pm

    Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:44 pm

    GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.

    Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230

    psychichobo
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 283
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2013-01-23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by psychichobo on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:44 pm

    But if he was in the DLC, you could kill him and create the paradox. That's the issue.

    I'm not sure why Gough is in the DLC. He was blinded by the other knights cos they're douches and would 'dare not challenge Kalameet's wrath', whilst he can spear him blindfolded from a mile away, but he did pick a very convenient spot to go hide - especially since I'm still not sure how he even got up there.


    As for Ornstein, I imagine they had to leave him in Anor Londo to stop Smough eating everyone.
    avatar
    GenericUsername
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 443
    Reputation : 21
    Join date : 2012-12-20
    Age : 23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by GenericUsername on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:49 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.

    Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
    But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:56 pm

    Artorias: Mr. Noble trying to save the princess

    Ciaran: Follows her love but is too late

    Gough: There's a reason they blinded him as was stated earlier. One hell of a grudge. He went where Kalameet(y Jane) went. Most of his presence to me, seemed to revolve around the dragon.

    Ornstein: Not interested in Oolacile or anything in it.

    Story wise, only two seem to be drawn to Oolacile and for different targets. Another is chasing a dream. The last has better things to do. That's my thoughts on it at least.

    Also, it does prevent the killing him paradox. Admittedly, he could just escape before death

    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:13 pm

    GenericUsername wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.

    Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
    But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.

    How do you kill someone who you already killed? The instant you kill him in the past, his present self ceases to exist. The only way it works is if time travel works DBZ style and you just end up creating multiple timelines. You could probably still obtain the Lord Vessel though, so it's not really a paradox.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    GenericUsername
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 443
    Reputation : 21
    Join date : 2012-12-20
    Age : 23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by GenericUsername on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:21 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    GenericUsername wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.

    Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
    But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.

    How do you kill someone who you already killed? The instant you kill him in the past, his present self ceases to exist.
    I know. You HAVE to kill him in the present to get to the past. Killing him in the present would not affect his past self. Then killing his past self would not alter the timeline in any serious way seeing as how he would have already been dead in the present, either way he dies and you would get drops.
    Also, if we are to talk about time travel, why don't we start out with the artorias set? We're the reason he's dead, and the reason sif is free from the abyss, and the reason the abyss was halted and manus defeated.

    psychichobo
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 283
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2013-01-23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by psychichobo on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:38 pm

    We don't start out with the Artorias set because Domhall is a dirty grave-robber, that's why.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:43 pm

    I'm not sure you understand what a temporal paradox is silly

    "A time traveler goes to the past, and does something that would prevent him from time travel in the first place. If he does not go back in time, he does not do anything that would prevent his traveling to the past, so time travel would be possible for him. However, if he goes back in time and does something that would prevent the time travel, he will not go back in time. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation - a type of logical paradox."-wikipedia

    You can't kill O in the past because that would prevent you from killing him in the present, and that would prevent you from travelling into the past to kill him there. The situation is impossible.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Kyōkai
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 244
    Reputation : 16
    Join date : 2012-12-18
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Kyōkai on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:47 pm

    Although if he was in the DLC, proving Ornstein to be an illusion wouldn't be much trouble at all.

    I'm not sure you understand what a temporal paradox is

    "A time traveler goes to the past, and does something that would prevent him from time travel in the first place. If he does not go back in time, he does not do anything that would prevent his traveling to the past, so time travel would be possible for him. However, if he goes back in time and does something that would prevent the time travel, he will not go back in time. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation - a type of logical paradox."-wikipedia

    You can't kill O in the past because that would prevent you from killing him in the present, and that would prevent you from travelling into the past to kill him there. The situation is impossible.

    About that... From could've just made it SEEM as though Ornstein's been killed.


    ~El Psy Congroo


    _________________

    Sanhedrim
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 27
    Reputation : 2
    Join date : 2013-02-05

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sanhedrim on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:10 pm

    They could have made Ornstein in the past the first boss fight that ends without you actually killing the boss. Like a test. How could you beat Manus, who handily defeated Artorias, when you're not even capable of matching Ornstein? That's the question and once you've proven your prowess, Ornstein leaves peacefully. And becomes available as a summon for Manus. Or something like that.

    But, since he's absent, perhaps he was patroling Oolacile's border, killing any monsters that tried to escape.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:12 pm

    Old King Dorran is the first boss you don't have to kill... in a way.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230

    Sanhedrim
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 27
    Reputation : 2
    Join date : 2013-02-05

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sanhedrim on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:14 pm

    Never played Demon's Souls.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:16 pm

    He was this really strong NPC


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    GenericUsername
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 443
    Reputation : 21
    Join date : 2012-12-20
    Age : 23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by GenericUsername on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:23 pm

    No wait, that still wouldn't be a temporal paradox. Getting the lordvessel isn't dependent on beating ornstein and smough, its dependent on speaking to gwynevere. Even if you had killed O in the past, then smough would still be there as well Tig ol bitties. Thus you could still get the vessel to travel back and kill him.
    avatar
    gmwdim
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 329
    Reputation : 18
    Join date : 2013-01-31
    Age : 30
    Location : Anor Londo aka San Francisco

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by gmwdim on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:06 am

    There's also 4 firekeeper souls in Lordran, although you can get more by killing the living firekeepers. Also, Smough had a chance to become the 5th knight of Gwyn but blew it with his cannibalism. To think, of all the ways to get your job application rejected...


    _________________
    Ask me about my three cats.
    PSN: gmwdim
    Character SL: 161, 125, 117, 104, 97, 66, 60, 40, 1
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:16 am

    gmwdim wrote:There's also 4 firekeeper souls in Lordran, although you can get more by killing the living firekeepers. Also, Smough had a chance to become the 5th knight of Gwyn but blew it with his cannibalism. To think, of all the ways to get your job application rejected...

    Uhmm wut??? Wrong thread there buddy?


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    gmwdim
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 329
    Reputation : 18
    Join date : 2013-01-31
    Age : 30
    Location : Anor Londo aka San Francisco

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by gmwdim on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:18 am

    Was in response to the lists of 4 things in Dark Souls at the beginning of the thread.


    _________________
    Ask me about my three cats.
    PSN: gmwdim
    Character SL: 161, 125, 117, 104, 97, 66, 60, 40, 1
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:21 am

    Oh, haha. Should have used a quote. I thought you went hollow there for a second silly


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230

    psychichobo
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 283
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2013-01-23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by psychichobo on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:37 pm

    It wasn't the chance to become a Knight of Gwyn Smough lost, it was a chance to become one of the Four Kings.

    Considering what happened to them maybe eating your greens (and smooshed enemies) has some merit after all...
    avatar
    gmwdim
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 329
    Reputation : 18
    Join date : 2013-01-31
    Age : 30
    Location : Anor Londo aka San Francisco

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by gmwdim on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:40 pm

    I think it was the knights of Gwyn. Smough's Hammer description:

    Great hammer from the soul of executioner
    Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
    Smough loved his work, and ground the bones
    of his victims into his own feed, ruining his
    hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.


    _________________
    Ask me about my three cats.
    PSN: gmwdim
    Character SL: 161, 125, 117, 104, 97, 66, 60, 40, 1
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 23
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:48 pm

    psychichobo wrote:It wasn't the chance to become a Knight of Gwyn Smough lost, it was a chance to become one of the Four Kings.

    Considering what happened to them maybe eating your greens (and smooshed enemies) has some merit after all...



    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230

    psychichobo
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 283
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2013-01-23

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by psychichobo on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:11 pm

    gmwdim wrote:I think it was the knights of Gwyn. Smough's Hammer description:

    Great hammer from the soul of executioner
    Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
    Smough loved his work, and ground the bones
    of his victims into his own feed, ruining his
    hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.


    Oh, I must've misread that, that was where I was getting that from.

    Unless the Four Kings actually ARE THE FOUR KNIGHTS OMG OMG OMG Naah not really.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:33 pm