by Sloth9230 Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:43 pmRight, the word shi can mean either 4 or death.
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skarekrow13
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densetsushun
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hey its andres
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Why Ornstein Isn't In The DLC
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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hey its andres- Insomniac
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Carphil wrote:I loved that Pic
It makes perfectly sense. But what I don't get it is why Ciaran and Gough went to Oolice as well
I mean, Artorias is the only one who "can" fight the abyss
I already forgot everything that Gough' says to you, and the only reason Ciaran followed Artorias its because she was in love with him.
I know that someone already posted this on the archives but I'm lazy
Well when he makes the covenant with the abyss isn't that when he's already fallen to it?
GenericUsername- Obsessed
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Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
psychichobo- Addicted
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But if he was in the DLC, you could kill him and create the paradox. That's the issue.
I'm not sure why Gough is in the DLC. He was blinded by the other knights cos they're douches and would 'dare not challenge Kalameet's wrath', whilst he can spear him blindfolded from a mile away, but he did pick a very convenient spot to go hide - especially since I'm still not sure how he even got up there.
As for Ornstein, I imagine they had to leave him in Anor Londo to stop Smough eating everyone.
I'm not sure why Gough is in the DLC. He was blinded by the other knights cos they're douches and would 'dare not challenge Kalameet's wrath', whilst he can spear him blindfolded from a mile away, but he did pick a very convenient spot to go hide - especially since I'm still not sure how he even got up there.
As for Ornstein, I imagine they had to leave him in Anor Londo to stop Smough eating everyone.
GenericUsername- Obsessed
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But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.Sloth9230 wrote:GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
skarekrow13- Chat Moderator
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Artorias: Mr. Noble trying to save the princess
Ciaran: Follows her love but is too late
Gough: There's a reason they blinded him as was stated earlier. One hell of a grudge. He went where Kalameet(y Jane) went. Most of his presence to me, seemed to revolve around the dragon.
Ornstein: Not interested in Oolacile or anything in it.
Story wise, only two seem to be drawn to Oolacile and for different targets. Another is chasing a dream. The last has better things to do. That's my thoughts on it at least.
Also, it does prevent the killing him paradox. Admittedly, he could just escape before death
Ciaran: Follows her love but is too late
Gough: There's a reason they blinded him as was stated earlier. One hell of a grudge. He went where Kalameet(y Jane) went. Most of his presence to me, seemed to revolve around the dragon.
Ornstein: Not interested in Oolacile or anything in it.
Story wise, only two seem to be drawn to Oolacile and for different targets. Another is chasing a dream. The last has better things to do. That's my thoughts on it at least.
Also, it does prevent the killing him paradox. Admittedly, he could just escape before death
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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GenericUsername wrote:But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.Sloth9230 wrote:GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
How do you kill someone who you already killed? The instant you kill him in the past, his present self ceases to exist. The only way it works is if time travel works DBZ style and you just end up creating multiple timelines. You could probably still obtain the Lord Vessel though, so it's not really a paradox.
GenericUsername- Obsessed
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I know. You HAVE to kill him in the present to get to the past. Killing him in the present would not affect his past self. Then killing his past self would not alter the timeline in any serious way seeing as how he would have already been dead in the present, either way he dies and you would get drops.Sloth9230 wrote:GenericUsername wrote:But if you kill him in the present, I don't think it would affect it if you go back and kill him in the past as well. I mean would it matter? Not like it would affect gameplay you've already completed.Sloth9230 wrote:GenericUsername wrote:Well technically you can't even get to the dlc until you get the lordvessel, which you have to kill ornstein to get anyway. So it is possible that he could have been in the dlc.
Killing O in the past would mean you never fought him in the present, that's why they're called "paradoxes".
How do you kill someone who you already killed? The instant you kill him in the past, his present self ceases to exist.
Also, if we are to talk about time travel, why don't we start out with the artorias set? We're the reason he's dead, and the reason sif is free from the abyss, and the reason the abyss was halted and manus defeated.
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We don't start out with the Artorias set because Domhall is a dirty grave-robber, that's why.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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I'm not sure you understand what a temporal paradox is 
"A time traveler goes to the past, and does something that would prevent him from time travel in the first place. If he does not go back in time, he does not do anything that would prevent his traveling to the past, so time travel would be possible for him. However, if he goes back in time and does something that would prevent the time travel, he will not go back in time. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation - a type of logical paradox."-wikipedia
You can't kill O in the past because that would prevent you from killing him in the present, and that would prevent you from travelling into the past to kill him there. The situation is impossible.
"A time traveler goes to the past, and does something that would prevent him from time travel in the first place. If he does not go back in time, he does not do anything that would prevent his traveling to the past, so time travel would be possible for him. However, if he goes back in time and does something that would prevent the time travel, he will not go back in time. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation - a type of logical paradox."-wikipedia
You can't kill O in the past because that would prevent you from killing him in the present, and that would prevent you from travelling into the past to kill him there. The situation is impossible.
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Although if he was in the DLC, proving Ornstein to be an illusion wouldn't be much trouble at all.
About that... From could've just made it SEEM as though Ornstein's been killed.
~El Psy Congroo
I'm not sure you understand what a temporal paradox is
"A time traveler goes to the past, and does something that would prevent him from time travel in the first place. If he does not go back in time, he does not do anything that would prevent his traveling to the past, so time travel would be possible for him. However, if he goes back in time and does something that would prevent the time travel, he will not go back in time. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation - a type of logical paradox."-wikipedia
You can't kill O in the past because that would prevent you from killing him in the present, and that would prevent you from travelling into the past to kill him there. The situation is impossible.
About that... From could've just made it SEEM as though Ornstein's been killed.
~El Psy Congroo
Sanhedrim- Newbie
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They could have made Ornstein in the past the first boss fight that ends without you actually killing the boss. Like a test. How could you beat Manus, who handily defeated Artorias, when you're not even capable of matching Ornstein? That's the question and once you've proven your prowess, Ornstein leaves peacefully. And becomes available as a summon for Manus. Or something like that.
But, since he's absent, perhaps he was patroling Oolacile's border, killing any monsters that tried to escape.
But, since he's absent, perhaps he was patroling Oolacile's border, killing any monsters that tried to escape.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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Old King Dorran is the first boss you don't have to kill... in a way.
Sanhedrim- Newbie
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Never played Demon's Souls.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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He was this really strong NPC
GenericUsername- Obsessed
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No wait, that still wouldn't be a temporal paradox. Getting the lordvessel isn't dependent on beating ornstein and smough, its dependent on speaking to gwynevere. Even if you had killed O in the past, then smough would still be there as well Tig ol bitties. Thus you could still get the vessel to travel back and kill him.
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There's also 4 firekeeper souls in Lordran, although you can get more by killing the living firekeepers. Also, Smough had a chance to become the 5th knight of Gwyn but blew it with his cannibalism. To think, of all the ways to get your job application rejected...
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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gmwdim wrote:There's also 4 firekeeper souls in Lordran, although you can get more by killing the living firekeepers. Also, Smough had a chance to become the 5th knight of Gwyn but blew it with his cannibalism. To think, of all the ways to get your job application rejected...
Uhmm
wut??? Wrong thread there buddy?
gmwdim- Obsessed
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Was in response to the lists of 4 things in Dark Souls at the beginning of the thread.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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Oh, haha. Should have used a quote. I thought you went hollow there for a second
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It wasn't the chance to become a Knight of Gwyn Smough lost, it was a chance to become one of the Four Kings.
Considering what happened to them maybe eating your greens (and smooshed enemies) has some merit after all...
Considering what happened to them maybe eating your greens (and smooshed enemies) has some merit after all...
gmwdim- Obsessed
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I think it was the knights of Gwyn. Smough's Hammer description:
Great hammer from the soul of executioner
Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
Smough loved his work, and ground the bones
of his victims into his own feed, ruining his
hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.
Sloth9230- Hollowed
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psychichobo wrote:It wasn't the chance to become a Knight of Gwyn Smough lost, it was a chance to become one of the Four Kings.
Considering what happened to them maybe eating your greens (and smooshed enemies) has some merit after all...
psychichobo- Addicted
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gmwdim wrote:I think it was the knights of Gwyn. Smough's Hammer description:
Great hammer from the soul of executioner
Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
Smough loved his work, and ground the bones
of his victims into his own feed, ruining his
hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.
Oh, I must've misread that, that was where I was getting that from.
Unless the Four Kings actually ARE THE FOUR KNIGHTS OMG OMG OMG Naah not really.
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