11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

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    sjackson12
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    11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:45 pm

    I made a new strength based character (big weapons, heavy armor, etc.) and picked up the Zweihander. However at +5 with C scaling a one point strength increase only gave it two additional bonus points. Is it supposed to be this terrible? And will the scaling bonus improve much once it gets to +10 and on? I'm just trying to figure out whether I should put any more points into strength or just forget it.

    I know C isn't great scaling, but still with that tiny of a bonus, what's the point?
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Dj-B-Man-Jr on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:52 pm

    If you're planning on using an ultra greatsword, Demon's great machete is what you should be going for, it has A scaling with strength and only strength, and it looks badass =P
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Akatik on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:52 pm

    https://sites.google.com/site/darksoulstats/dark-souls-calculators/normal

    Try this site. Although, in my opinion, once you start picking weapons based solely on min/maxing, the fun/uniqueness of your build goes out the window. Use what works for you.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:53 pm

    well thats the thing about scalling in this game

    it gets weaker and weaker the more points you put on the stat the weapon scales

    you start getting less and less bonus points until you'll stop getting then at all

    it normally gets low as **** once you get the stat to 40 then the scaling becomes horrible

    and the scaling does get better the more you upgrade the weapons however its just a 0.50% increase each lvl the weapon gets

    i may be wrong but that how i see the scaling

    i don't think anyone actually goes for scaling in this game they just get the weapon's base power to 200 and use a buff and be done with it



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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Whknight on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:55 pm

    Alot of the swords I considered balance weapons, meaning you need fairly a good STR/DEX balance to get the most out of them, they are still devestating in combat though.

    If you want to use a GS look into getting a Man-Serpent GS, or the Demon Great Machete, both start off with B scaling and will get A scalling at +11-14 somewhere in there. If you don't mind changing it up many of the great clubs/hammers have B-A scaling and Demon's Great Axe has S.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:28 pm

    Well I can by both the axe and sword mentioned from Shiva, so that's nice. Looking at one handed +15 base vs. +15 with 46 strength:

    axe (S) 285 -> 654
    machete (S) 332 -> 642

    Two-handed is barely more (explain?)

    However a +5 lightning Zweihander is 721. Am I missing something here?

    It would also be a lot cheaper to get the Zwei, since I don't have to buy a new weapon or upgrade strength.

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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:32 pm

    the lightning adds another defence to break so it actually does less damage per hit most of the time. if i remember correctly


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by ChizFreak on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:37 pm

    In my opinion, the best of the swords, in terms of overall effectiveness, for Stret builds, it's the Man-Serpent greatsword. But I would also like to recommend you the Great Club, a bit slower but a lot more damage.

    I honestly believe, that the best weapon in terms of PURE Stret. It's the Great Club +15.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Whknight on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:42 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:the lightning adds another defence to break so it actually does less damage per hit most of the time. if i remember correctly
    This is what I've seen/read, however for PvE elemental weapons are quite effective, bosses are usually the only ones with certain resistances.

    You can't really kill melee hits now with Iron Flesh anymore to my understanding and I hardly doubt anyone is going to use Havel's shield even if they do they only have 1 cast of stoneskin which lasts 30 seconds.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:43 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:the lightning adds another defence to break so it actually does less damage per hit most of the time. if i remember correctly

    Any idea how much less we are talking about?

    Also what about the Greataxe? It has the highest damage of any weapon in lightning form.
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:53 pm

    Whatever you do, don't get a lightning Zwhei, it's just cheap and skilless

    (Lol at downvote)


    Last edited by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:54 pm

    Yarxov wrote:Whatever you do, don't get a lightning Zwhei, it's just cheap and skilless

    Well that's why I made the thread, I wanted to use a normal weapon. Besides I'm already using a lightning claymore in my other game.
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:57 pm

    The discussion of Lightning heavy weapons came up and that was my two-cents, the down vote was not necessary.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:58 pm

    Yarxov wrote:The discussion of Lightning heavy weapons came up and that was my two-cents, the down vote was not necessary.

    I didn't vote on anything...?
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:00 pm

    Someone else did then. It was more of a statement then a straight reply btw.
    (I would like to have a debate with whomever disagreed with my statement aswell since they are so ready to defend their precious OPness with anonimity.)


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Whknight on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:07 pm

    I don't think it's possible to know how much less, there are several factors in play, even if we did it would probably vary quite a bit between PvP matches. Not everyone will have the same resistance stat, humanity, armor sets, but also you have to realize, if you plan to buff your weapon with Sunlight, Darkmoon, or Crystal, a +15 buffed weapon will usually outperform it's elemental counterparts, though smaller weapons benefit even more from this method I do believe.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:22 am

    Personally, I prefer t he Zwei to the DGM. It has a longer reach and is lighter. It may also be a little faster. But, you are sacrificing AR, as the DGM hits harder than the Zwei.



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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:44 am

    Decided to get the DGM, at +7 so far. I really like it, but when I increased strength from 26 to 27 the bonus damage only went up by one point?
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by CrackSouls on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:49 am

    sjackson12 wrote:Decided to get the DGM, at +7 so far. I really like it, but when I increased strength from 26 to 27 the bonus damage only went up by one point?

    I use Dex weapons, so it might be a little different, but I believe it reaches maximum effectiveness at 40 Strength. I think between 30-40 is the biggest jump (might be more so in Demon's though)


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by reim0027 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:27 am

    sjackson12 wrote:Decided to get the DGM, at +7 so far. I really like it, but when I increased strength from 26 to 27 the bonus damage only went up by one point?
    Was this 1H or 2H? If you plan on fighting 2H, then stop at 27. The AR pretty much maxes there, unless you put a lot of stats in.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by sjackson12 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:48 am

    reim0027 wrote:
    sjackson12 wrote:Decided to get the DGM, at +7 so far. I really like it, but when I increased strength from 26 to 27 the bonus damage only went up by one point?
    Was this 1H or 2H? If you plan on fighting 2H, then stop at 27. The AR pretty much maxes there, unless you put a lot of stats in.

    two-handed, if I one-hand it it shows a negative bonus.

    I didn't realize scaling increases changed based on the stat level. It's kind of silly with this weapon, because if the AR pretty much maxes around 27, but you can't one-hand it at all until level 25 or so. Not much room to do anything.
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by TonyDamajer on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:53 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:the lightning adds another defence to break so it actually does less damage per hit most of the time. if i remember correctly
    yes if your enemy is heavy armored, it will deal like 50more dmg with the regular upgrade path. On light armored, backstabs and most creatures the elementals do more dmg.
    Considering that that you have to spend ~15-30 points more in strengh/dex to get some extra dmg on regular weapons and the fact that elementals dont get blocked completly by 100stability shields, one might think he shouldve spent more points in endurance.

    However the elementals are unbuffable and thats probably the reason so many are using +15weapons (other than those who think some upgrade paths are lame on some weapons)
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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:57 pm

    Yarxov wrote:Whatever you do, don't get a lightning Zwhei, it's just cheap and skilless

    (Lol at downvote)

    I agree with you here yarxov, it's very powerful with elemental upgrades, but it's not necessarily cheap, I think that it's a good backup weapon for a STR build (personally i'd use it chaos but there you go)

    btw i didnt vote you down, but yeah im surprised they did.


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by Yarxov on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:49 pm

    It was pretty instantaneous too, I actually feel proud of it.
    The amount of damage per hit is ridiculous (It would nearly one shot someone at 20 Vit with ~800 health) and that with the GS stunlock makes it a game winner. It is fairly easy to dodge though, My only problem is finding their back because when they swing it their waist rotates making their actual 'back' face a different direction.

    I can see your point, it's part of the game so I have to just deal with it. happy


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    Re: 11+ Normal vs. Fire/Lightning

    Post by RANT on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34 pm

    i would go with the dgm, its my fave weapon in the whole game, the dgh beign the second. id recommend you get your faith up to 30 and use slb or dmb, dont really need more than 30 really, also the zwei+15 kicks *** with slb/dmb. heres a video of me using it



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