Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

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    ChizFreak
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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:49 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:Hammers, Axes, and Ultra Greatswords are not quality weapons. They scale with STR and DEX equally. The Zwei and Greatsword are exactly the same, and while they scale well with both stats they are usable by STR builds if you have the minimum DEX. Just because they scale well with both stats doesn't mean you can't use them with only one of them high. 40 STR and 13 DEX Zwei does 528 damage, which is fine considering it can stunlock. Same thing applies for halberds though halbers are faster, Zwei and GS can dead angle very easily, have more "area" range, and because of that it's easier to hit.

    And you're incorrect, all weapons I mentioned stunlock, given you're at the right distance, keep in mind distance plays a vital role in whether or not you're able to stunlock. Even if you hit your enemy from afar with your Zwei, he will be able to dodge, only from a certain distance and closer you are able to stunlock.

    i meant the halberds, of course greataxes are str weapons but from what you are saying then i guess you consider the garg tail axe, rapier and washing pole are str weapons, you could even say the falchion can be a tr weapon too since it scalles with str too. i know distance has a big role with weapons that dont have infinite stunlock like the DGM, the mot you can get out of it is two hits if your opponent i right next to you but then they can rol out but do you realy think peoplle go up to str weapons and start swinging? people rarely do unless you catch them in a roll. with the zwei or gs you can get two hits in since theyre in a stunlock even if you hit them with the tip, the dgm would never do that. and like ive said before, unless your opponent is retarted and does not try to dodge after getting hit with a big weapon then he will get stunlocked to death.

    No, I never mentioned Katanas or curved swords, or long swords, or piercing swords...

    I specifically said each weapons that it's viable for a STR build even though they are not exactly STR weapons that stunlocks AND STR weapons that stunlock. I said Gargoyle Axe Sentiel just to let him know, but yes the Gargoyle Axe is a DEX weapon, though rest Battle Axe and Golem Axe are STR weapons.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:52 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:So they removed arguably the best feature of an already under powered weapon class? Great balancing that is. I rarely want from to do things differently, but they could stand to take some balance lessons.

    They were pretty good actually, everybody went with Chaos Greataxe +5 which did like 720 damage (this is before the nerf to elemental weapons) and attack unlocked to where you were, very easy to get a stunlock as they were slow enough to change the direction of the attack midswing but fast enough to attack by surprise and get stunlocks.

    Without the stunlock they are pretty useless yeah. Though the Demon Greataxe's R2 is awesome.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by RANT on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:53 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:Hammers, Axes, and Ultra Greatswords are not quality weapons. They scale with STR and DEX equally. The Zwei and Greatsword are exactly the same, and while they scale well with both stats they are usable by STR builds if you have the minimum DEX. Just because they scale well with both stats doesn't mean you can't use them with only one of them high. 40 STR and 13 DEX Zwei does 528 damage, which is fine considering it can stunlock. Same thing applies for halberds though halbers are faster, Zwei and GS can dead angle very easily, have more "area" range, and because of that it's easier to hit.

    And you're incorrect, all weapons I mentioned stunlock, given you're at the right distance, keep in mind distance plays a vital role in whether or not you're able to stunlock. Even if you hit your enemy from afar with your Zwei, he will be able to dodge, only from a certain distance and closer you are able to stunlock.

    i meant the halberds, of course greataxes are str weapons but from what you are saying then i guess you consider the garg tail axe, rapier and washing pole are str weapons, you could even say the falchion can be a tr weapon too since it scalles with str too. i know distance has a big role with weapons that dont have infinite stunlock like the DGM, the mot you can get out of it is two hits if your opponent i right next to you but then they can rol out but do you realy think peoplle go up to str weapons and start swinging? people rarely do unless you catch them in a roll. with the zwei or gs you can get two hits in since theyre in a stunlock even if you hit them with the tip, the dgm would never do that. and like ive said before, unless your opponent is retarted and does not try to dodge after getting hit with a big weapon then he will get stunlocked to death.

    No, I never mentioned Katanas or curved swords, or long swords, or piercing swords...

    I specifically said each weapons that it's viable for a STR build even though they are not exactly STR weapons that stunlocks AND STR weapons that stunlock. I said Gargoyle Axe Sentiel just to let him know, but yes the Gargoyle Axe is a DEX weapon, though rest Battle Axe and Golem Axe are STR weapons.

    but you mentioned weaponss that scaled with STR(a C) and i mentioned weapons that scale with STR even with a D like the rapier. anyway, the point is that greataxes are still good but they dont stunlock anymore, i couldnt sstunlock wyrm with the reg gaxe and he doesnt swap out.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:00 pm

    720 ar. Not 720 damage. It was closer to 400 damage.

    Anyways I only saw 2 great axes and 2 demon great axes in the entire time I played pre patch.

    Reason being a leo ring balder side sword (among other dex weapon thrust attacks) would out damage them (actually doing 700 damage) and out range them.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Nybbles on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:41 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:The greataxes used to have a very good stunlock but after the patch they're pretty much useless. Either way I'm not giving up on my DGA since it's my favorite weapon!!!!

    yup, i can attest to that. i've been using a great axe on my strength build and i have never stun-locked anyone with it. stun yes but never stun-lock. if i hit my opponent and break their poise on the first or second hit, they can roll out before i have the chance to land a follow up hit. i've had the same experience with the DGM and the DGS.

    club, reinforced club, mace, morningstar and battle axe all have the ability to stun-lock. you'd think that if a stick of wood can stun-lock, a 14 lb mass of iron would be able to do the same, but it can't.

    strength weapons have lost their competitive edge with out the ability to land at least one hit after breaking your opponent's poise. dexterity weapons have all the advantages at this point: light, fast, harder to punish, bleed and some can even break poise effectively. sure strength weapons hit like a truck, but you still have to hit a fast moving target with a really slow weapon. so that's hardly any sort of advantage.
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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:10 pm

    all hammers can stun lock, but some do it better than others, the mace can stunlock reliably for 2 to 3 hits then can be normal rolled out of (no toggle stuff) the reinforced club can infinite stunlock if your opponent doesn't toggle escape, same for the giant blk smith hammer. the 1 handed r2 on the dga can stunlock as its a combo move that hits really hard. also the manserpent gs can do a 2h r1 2h r2 stun combo for super high damage.



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    the only spells that truly complement a str build are hidden weapon, wog, and all the body buffs (iron flesh, replenishment, etc)


    Last edited by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a build)


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 pm

    WTF the Stone Greataxe has 540 AR at 48 Str. :pale:


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:09 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:WTF the Stone Greataxe has 540 AR at 48 Str. :pale:

    Yeah, I gave up on it because of that, though the special R2 was really fun to use silly

    Ended up replacing it with a Demon's Greataxe though because, other than the special R2, it's superior in every way. Same requirements, lighter, higher AR, longer reach, and more versatile (if less flashy) moveset.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by RANT on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:35 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:WTF the Stone Greataxe has 540 AR at 48 Str. :pale:

    Yep, I was so dissapointed with it.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:31 pm

    al they needed to do to make that gaxe balanced was to make it deal impact damage so it would be more effective against heavy armor...


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:26 am

    [quote="Nybbles"]club, reinforced club, mace, morningstar and battle axe all have the ability to stun-lock. you'd think that if a stick of wood can stun-lock, a 14 lb mass of iron would be able to do the same, but it can't./quote]
    ^ This.

    Very well said.

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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by largestember on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:18 am

    I always make str builds, they're my favorite. Never seen myself using a dex weapon.
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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Sir-flicker on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:01 pm

    largestember wrote:I always make str builds, they're my favorite. Never seen myself using a dex weapon.

    I used to be the same way till recently, I was a avid str weapon user in DeS and DkS till recently. IMO if I cant stunlock a glippen ninja then when my DGH hits it should crush them in a single blow. Like when you fight havel at a low lvl. He was slow, but if you got hit you would be smushed into the ground.

    But seriously why take away a str user best weapon away?



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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:25 pm

    I'v had a Str build in DS. It was fun to PvP with it, but in DkS, they just feel so sluggish and hard to control... sad

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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Sir-flicker on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:42 pm

    Sentiel wrote:I'v had a Str build in DS. It was fun to PvP with it, but in DkS, they just feel so sluggish and hard to control... sad

    The weight wasnt so much an issue, there was only 2 breakpoint in roll speed 50% & 100%, the moveset where a bit more varied if I recall.


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    Re: Why are Str builds so goddamn hard to make

    Post by Nybbles on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:43 pm

    @Sir-flicker
    i think you are correct on that assumption, i recall a very similar feeling from moving to Demon's to Dark.

    i appreciate the effort to add in a variety of new and awesome looking R2 moves in Dark, but they are so slow that they might as well not exist for the amount of times that they are used or even useful. but weight is a much bigger issue. strength weapons weigh so much and have such high requirements for such a small return on your investment. EDIT: and nerfing their ability to stun-lock has only hurt them even further.

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