Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

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    Do you think it's possible that Ciaran might be the trainer/leader of the Painting Guardians?

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    Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:48 pm

    A little while after I got the Abyss DLC for Darksouls, I ran into Ciaran. What we know from her lore is that she is one of the 4 knights of Gwyn (hornet's ring obviously), she was the assassin of the 4 knights (her weapon has 160 crit and she has hornets ring, obvious), and we know that she probably developed feelings for Artorias.
    Now look at the painting guardians, they duel wield, so does Ciaran, they are extremely light on their feet, so is Ciaran, (this is only a small speculation) they also have similar "Pony tail" on their masks (Ciaran's is probably her actual hair).
    Also look at the painting guardian sword, It's special moveset moves most gracefully, I get that same gracefulness from the Gold tracer as well, and not to mention the second r2 combo of both weapons are almost EXACTLY the same, 1h and 2h!
    Now if you look at the PG sword crit rate, It is 100 unlike the Dark silver tracer which is 160, but keep in mind that the pg sword is not a dagger but a curved sword that resembles more of the Gold tracer rather than the dark silver tracer, I don't think it would be logical to compare the DST with the PGS. The DST is probably a unique/special weapon/gift given to Ciaran since she is one of Gwyn's 4 knights and a top assassin as a "trophy" or recognition of her position amond the ranks.

    So what I'm wondering is if Ciaran could possibly be the Trainer/Head/master/etc of the Painting Guardians?(or maybe the Assassins in general)

    Any other lore discussions about Ciaran are also welcome here!


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:53 pm

    It could be for sure. I actually assumed their fighting style was more directly tied to Priscilla actually. Her dagger has a lot of flourish in the attacks and no critical bonus. They also share a color scheme with her (kinda) and are preventing intruders from entering. Since it's all Anor Londo though in the end they could all be one web.

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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:54 pm

    Ah, I forgot about Priscilla's dagger, but maybe that could be the DST of the painting guardians!!


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:09 pm

    Still no critical bonus though. It's surprisingly ineffective for backstabs and ripostes. I would venture that the three entities (Ciaran, Painting Guardians and Priscilla's dagger) were intentionally made similar. The only question I would say remains is if Ciaran was in the mix BEFORE the DLC came out. After seeing Ciaran I gotta say that the weapons etc. bear a strong resemblance and my belief is that From wanted us to connect her with either the dagger or the painting guardians. But in the original content we only have the guardians and the dagger that are similar. So.....we know there's more story than what was originally made in the game. Was Ciaran always intended to be tied to the other two or was her attack style made to look like the other sets as an afterthought?

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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Ashran on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:13 pm

    Uhm.... I hink ciaran could just command the royal assasins but the painting guardians are just... well, guardians. As far i know, they dont get their *** far than the gate of that chapel.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:18 pm

    Hmmmm, I thought all rapiers/daggers have special crit rates, like Ricards says 100 crit rate but does more damage than a claymore that has the same AR in a riposte, I don't know about daggers though. Maybe we will find out in DkS II with those weird assassin guys with the mask and in the PW (I watched the trailer again an hour ago and I'm 99% sure that bridge is the Painted World bridge). Priscilla's dagger does seem a little too fluent to be related to the DST rather than the GT. Maybe they did just copy some of the Painting Guardian onto Ciaran and that they have no relation at all. No one knows for sure so there are endless possibilities and answers XD


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Ashran on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:39 pm

    Im sure those masked man are assasins commanded by Ciaran who obviously is told by Gwyn to murder you because you are trying to end the age of fire and in some point you maybe find her...


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Hue on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:32 pm

    I'd say Ciaran works for Gwyn, not the painter, or Priscilla, or whoever told the guardians to protect the painting.

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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:38 pm

    BeeSeaEss wrote:Hmmmm, I thought all rapiers/daggers have special crit rates, like Ricards says 100 crit rate but does more damage than a claymore that has the same AR in a riposte, I don't know about daggers though. Maybe we will find out in DkS II with those weird assassin guys with the mask and in the PW (I watched the trailer again an hour ago and I'm 99% sure that bridge is the Painted World bridge). Priscilla's dagger does seem a little too fluent to be related to the DST rather than the GT. Maybe they did just copy some of the Painting Guardian onto Ciaran and that they have no relation at all. No one knows for sure so there are endless possibilities and answers XD

    Umm, the bridge in the PW isn't the only bridge in the world you know. To me it just seems highly illogical that they would have a place created by some mysterious painter as another area in DkS2. Although maybe someone stole the painting from Ano Londo. You never know.

    ANYWAYS It clearly states that the Painting Gaurdians have forgotten of their real purpose. IMO the painting Gaurdians are the Lords Blades, very long after Ciaran's death. Time is distorted right? Also the Events in Oolacile happen mug much before where the game is taking place.

    I also agree heavily on the PGS and the GT move sets. I think Ciaran and the Lords blades were more widely known for the gold tracer rather than the Dark Silver Tracer. Not much need for assassins for a land falling in to ruin.

    tl;dr Painting Gaurdians are the Lords Blades.



    EDIT: I didnt vote because Cairans the leader of the lords blades. Not the painting Gaurdians.


    Last edited by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Hue on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:41 pm

    RedderAI wrote:
    Umm, the bridge in the PW isn't the only bridge in the world you know. To me it just seems highly illogical that they would have a place created by some mysterious painter as another area in DkS2. Although maybe someone stole the painting from Ano Londo. You never know.

    ANYWAYS It clearly states that the Painting Gaurdians have forgotten of their real purpose. IMO the painting Gaurdians are the Lords Blades, very long after Ciaran's death. Time is distorted right? Also the Events in Oolacile happen mug much before where the game is taking place.

    I also agree heavily on the PGS and the GT move sets. I think Ciaran and the Lords blades were more widely known for the gold tracer rather than the Dark Silver Tracer. Not much need for assassins for a land falling in to ruin.

    tl;dr I agree.

    I thought stuff in DkS2 still happens in Lordran, am i wrong?

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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:44 pm

    Hachouma wrote:
    RedderAI wrote:
    Umm, the bridge in the PW isn't the only bridge in the world you know. To me it just seems highly illogical that they would have a place created by some mysterious painter as another area in DkS2. Although maybe someone stole the painting from Ano Londo. You never know.

    ANYWAYS It clearly states that the Painting Gaurdians have forgotten of their real purpose. IMO the painting Gaurdians are the Lords Blades, very long after Ciaran's death. Time is distorted right? Also the Events in Oolacile happen mug much before where the game is taking place.

    I also agree heavily on the PGS and the GT move sets. I think Ciaran and the Lords blades were more widely known for the gold tracer rather than the Dark Silver Tracer. Not much need for assassins for a land falling in to ruin.

    tl;dr I agree.

    I thought stuff in DkS2 still happens in Lordran, am i wrong?

    Yes, it's in the same world. Just in a different area. For example Astora or Carim. (nothing confirmed on where though)
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Hue on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:28 pm

    RedderAI wrote:

    Yes, it's in the same world. Just in a different area. For example Astora or Carim. (nothing confirmed on where though)
    Astora, Carim, Catarina, Zena...all of these are separate countries, they aren't regions of Lordran
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:35 pm

    Hachouma wrote:
    RedderAI wrote:

    Yes, it's in the same world. Just in a different area. For example Astora or Carim. (nothing confirmed on where though)
    Astora, Carim, Catarina, Zena...all of these are separate countries, they aren't regions of Lordran

    Different countries =/= different worlds.

    As an aside, Carim (at least) may ACTUALLY be the region of another country. Their leader isn't a king, but an earl.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:49 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Hachouma wrote:
    RedderAI wrote:

    Yes, it's in the same world. Just in a different area. For example Astora or Carim. (nothing confirmed on where though)
    Astora, Carim, Catarina, Zena...all of these are separate countries, they aren't regions of Lordran

    Different countries =/= different worlds.

    As an aside, Carim (at least) may ACTUALLY be the region of another country. Their leader isn't a king, but an earl.

    I got so excited when I saw you posted in here. I thought it was some reply to my post.

    Lordran revolves around me..... -_-
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 pm

    RedderAI wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    Hachouma wrote:
    RedderAI wrote:

    Yes, it's in the same world. Just in a different area. For example Astora or Carim. (nothing confirmed on where though)
    Astora, Carim, Catarina, Zena...all of these are separate countries, they aren't regions of Lordran

    Different countries =/= different worlds.

    As an aside, Carim (at least) may ACTUALLY be the region of another country. Their leader isn't a king, but an earl.

    I got so excited when I saw you posted in here. I thought it was some reply to my post.

    Lordran revolves around me..... -_-

    Hehe, I mainly post to present some more facts, but your post was pretty right on the money. The only part that I could really argue against is the "time is distorted" thing since the only mention of that is Solaire saying it and the soapstones, but that's one theory I doubt anyone will ever go for.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:08 pm

    Shkar wrote:

    Hehe, I mainly post to present some more facts, but your post was pretty right on the money. The only part that I could really argue against is the "time is distorted" thing since the only mention of that is Solaire saying it and the soapstones, but that's one theory I doubt anyone will ever go for.

    In my personal belief time is more frozen really. Each area is stuck in a certain time; all areas have a certain amount of decay that makes me think so. Also, days do not pass. It's forever stuck either night or day (except for AL). Another reason I believe this is in Oolacile all areas were connected and pretty much in the same state. Lordran itself though...... The areas feel cut off sort of. (if you catch my drift) like undead burg still has fires burning an most of the architectural damage looked to be man-made rather than decay (although plant life has taken over) while the undead parish looks to be more in the crumbling state over a long period of time rather than a bunch of fighting has happened or something's.

    Makes sense? No? Yeah it barely does to me. Lol
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Myztyrio on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:05 pm

    If anything, Ciran came in contact with Priscilla and learned from her/maybe betrayed her to go her own way later.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:09 pm

    Myztyrio wrote:If anything, Ciran came in contact with Priscilla and learned from her/maybe betrayed her to go her own way later.


    That does make sense, maybe Seathe wanted to get rid of the Queen, so as being Gwyn's Archivist, Gwyn sent Ciaran to do the dirty work, but don't you think Ornstein or Gough would have done it instead? They are dragon slayers afterall.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm

    I doubt Gwyn would need them to take her out. Ciaran is an assassian, which would work for a slilent, quick death to Priscilla that would not bring much attention to the other gods, if they were still in Anor Londo. Though I doubt Seath would want her dead, soon that is. I always thought he had plans to study her "gift" as part of his immortality research.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by RedderAI on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:38 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:I doubt Gwyn would need them to take her out. Ciaran is an assassian, which would work for a slilent, quick death to Priscilla that would not bring much attention to the other gods, if they were still in Anor Londo. Though I doubt Seath would want her dead, soon that is. I always thought he had plans to study her "gift" as part of his immortality research.

    For some inexplicable reason I thought Priscilla was the product of Seath somehow impregnating Gwynevere with Priscilla and that was the reason Gwynevere ran off was because she couldn't keep her child and Seath did that to her..... It's just why my mind played with until I got in-depth with lore.

    I still think Priscilla is the daughter of Seath. She's obviously half dragon. Maybe it's Velka who's the mother. Idk. *shrugs*
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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:50 pm

    The Crossbreed of dragon and prehaps god Priscilla. I got a lot of hypothesises on her, but that belongs somewhere else. However I can say that here Lifehunt power may have put fear in Anor Londo. If anything whoever had the painting as a "home" before her may have had Ciaran train the guardians to either keep people out or keep her in. Either the owner or Seath may have did that, but for Seath was likely for research than fatherly love.


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    Re: Painting Guardians & Master Ciaran

    Post by Murdeaulio on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:41 pm

    The painted world is there to hide shameful things. Pricillia is there, and the painted world is kind of like a secret locker for the occult ember so that noone may use it to destroy the gods

    also, the Vow of Silence is found there, and painted guardian armor is resistant to magic, which leads me to believe that it's in direct oposition to Gwyndollin or maybe Seath. Gwyndollin gives you the lordvessel as Gwynnevere, which means the darkmoons want you to kill Gwyn. Cirian works for Gwyn...

    I don't have any real conclusions, but maybe this info will help

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