Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:55 pm

    I've actually told hosts not to attack. We were doing the 4 kings at NG +4. The host kept dying. He had myself and another phantom on the same lobby and we were able to connect every time. Finally, I told him to stay back, chug estus to keep us alive, and spam his Channeler's Trident. Went real smooth after that.

    Heck, I stopped dropping my white sign at the start of Anor because the hosts kept dying in either the early platforming, or at the archers. I would even tell them to let me take care of the archers, but many would ignore it and die.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Bloodpact91 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:27 pm

    Unless the phantom message me and ask me to stay back , i get in the fight and do my share , but if i get low on health i will go back and heal myself with my Heal miracle instead of using Estus , this way i can keep them for the players helping me, i figure it's the least i can do. I hope what i'm doing is considered ''ok'' happy


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Aznul on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:26 am

    As a glass cannon caster sunbro, I can kinda understand. Although, I never really see this until after I start casting and dealing double or triple their damage. At that point they tend to back off a bit and manage my health so I can focus on plowing through whatever nasty is trapped in a room with us.

    But, if they weren't willing to estus for phantoms OR attack, I would likely be frustrated, especially if it lead to my death. Thankfully I have yet to encounter this type of host, and therefore have lost none of my enthusiasm for being a sunbro.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:50 am

    Personally I really get annoyed by phantoms that assume I want them to beat the level for me; I can do it just fine, I summon for added fun. Half the phantoms I summon just run for the boss, when really I want them to go clear the level with me, then do the boss, especially in annoying areas like the toxic guys in blighttown or the archers in anor londo.

    I want the phantoms to follow my lead; if they don't enjoy doing a level, they can always black crystal out.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Mr. Tart on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:16 am

    I've had similar experiences, though the hosts usually do fight until they're about to die in which they retreat. I just take it as a sign that they're in dire need of help with the boss.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Nightmare Moon on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:47 am

    the only time i experienced it was when i was summoned at O&S. Whenever it happens i just bring them to the host. I feel they at least have to earn the kill by at least attempting to fight. When i summon phantoms i always fight by their side happy
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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:05 am

    I used to hate hosts that don't fight O&S and just stand there, because I never knew which one I should slay. At least one attack, arrow, pointing a hand, anything!

    Then, I had an idea. Since I hate Smough, I always attack Ornstein if the host doesn't attack Smough himself. Problem sovled. big grin

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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Bioraptor on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:59 am

    Sentiel wrote:I used to hate hosts that don't fight O&S and just stand there, because I never knew which one I should slay. At least one attack, arrow, pointing a hand, anything!

    Then, I had an idea. Since I hate Smough, I always attack Ornstein if the host doesn't attack Smough himself. Problem sovled. big grin
    Easy fight aswell doing it that way...I hate fighting a gaint Ornstein.....lol


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:06 am

    Bioraptor wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I used to hate hosts that don't fight O&S and just stand there, because I never knew which one I should slay. At least one attack, arrow, pointing a hand, anything!

    Then, I had an idea. Since I hate Smough, I always attack Ornstein if the host doesn't attack Smough himself. Problem sovled. big grin
    Easy fight aswell doing it that way...I hate fighting a gaint Ornstein.....lol
    Giant Ornstein is probably the most buggy boss in DkS.
    His infamous canceling of attacks, or changing them into a different one are a major pain.

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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by X-government-agent on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:17 pm

    I think I got trolled on the 4 kings 2 days ago, summoned two phantoms both females mages with tcc and when we went through fog and dropped down they both walk in opposite direction of the first king and just watched me even when my rtr activated they just watched as I was near death, ended up getting one shotted on the 4 king ng+ 2 and all I could hear whilst I was dying was one of the voice carvings in the background


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Walter_White on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:12 pm

    Sentiel wrote:
    Bioraptor wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I used to hate hosts that don't fight O&S and just stand there, because I never knew which one I should slay. At least one attack, arrow, pointing a hand, anything!

    Then, I had an idea. Since I hate Smough, I always attack Ornstein if the host doesn't attack Smough himself. Problem sovled. big grin
    Easy fight aswell doing it that way...I hate fighting a gaint Ornstein.....lol
    Giant Ornstein is probably the most buggy boss in DkS.
    His infamous canceling of attacks, or changing them into a different one are a major pain.

    Unless host says, or indicates (by attacking one of them, not only to lure away, but making serious damage) in NG ALWAYS kill Smough first because:
    1. get him the ring
    2. make the harder fight in NG, so NG+ will be easier the other way around (ornstein first)

    I love Arnor Londo and O&S fight, have done it with a SL35 toon in NG+++ as a phantom with different hosts, and before more than 100 times and different toons/playstyles....even super ornstein ist getting easy after a while, you get a sixth sense after a while for his next action. Fastrolling toon helps much in that part of the fight, but you can do ist with a midroller aswell
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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by AFROJT on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:34 pm

    I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Walter_White on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:39 pm

    AFROJT wrote:I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    ...i send phantoms home or suicide if they do something stupid...better losing souls/humantiy than one playthrough for nothing (if i want tail cutoff, or Ornstein/Smough first and phantom doesnt cooperate)...sorry no souls & humanity for you
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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by AFROJT on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:45 pm

    Walter_White wrote:
    AFROJT wrote:I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    ...i send phantoms home or suicide if they do something stupid...better losing souls/humantiy than one playthrough for nothing (if i want tail cutoff, or Ornstein/Smough first and phantom doesnt cooperate)...sorry no souls & humanity for you

    The best way to get the souls and humanity is to help kill everything in the level. I'll normally lead the host to whatever items are in the area, and kill whatever enemies there are. Once we're in the boss fight, if they have a tail or something I try and cut it off. If we fail at that, I send them a message and give them the item.

    My job is to help the host whilst being summoned, not just go after the boss.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Aznul on Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:47 pm

    I summoned a mage for the 4 kings recently, on my glass cannon build. I lost track of her on the way down the spiral stairs to the abyss, then I saw that she had died. I shrugged, dropped down, and soloed them without a problem. I figure she forgot the ring, since she didn't seem familiar with the area.
    It can be frustrating for a phantom or host to not cooperate. Though I am perfectly willing to co-op a full level with a host, it seems that many of them simply run for the boss fog. This doesn't bother me, but I don't think I should expect it from the host, since sometimes you really do need help with the level and not just the boss. Though personally I prefer to clear out a level before summoning (open shortcuts and get loot, not kill the things between summon sign and boss fog, phantoms can at least help with that).


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:16 pm

    AFROJT wrote:I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.
    :black-crystal:


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:39 pm

    Yeah, if a phantom runs off to do the level without knowing which way I am going, I normally wait a bit to see if they come back, then I BC them out. They are there to help me, but if they do not know my intent, they really cannot help can they?


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Flankydizzle on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:01 am

    For newer players who aren't aware of how easy it is to farm humanity in the depths and stuff, they might only have say 2 item humanities, have already lost one trying to take on a boss and dying, and have 1 left and don't want to lose it in a stupid way. Plus they might've been waiting forever for a summon sign to appear so you can't just assume that everyone who doesn't help you with the bosses is just 'lazy'.

    Secondly, if you're a sunbro then you should really be doing anything you can to protect the host. It's not about you, it's about them... You have nothing to lose afterall.

    But yes, if they don't even heal you then that's pretty bad unless they just aren't aware that healing themselves heals you also.
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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:50 am

    I spent half of my day helping people with the Iron Golem so I could upgrade my Pyromancy Flame for O&S. Anyway, I get to this one host with a Drake Sword and Eagle Shield... worst d-bag ever. Throughout the whole fight, the guy just stayed at the entrance. I figure he planned to just stand back and heal me, so I start chucking fire-orbs at the golem. Everything was going great, until... the Golem grabbed me. Luckily I landed on the bridge opposite the entrance, but I decided to tank his next swing because I was scarred I'd screw up and fall off the ledge. Only problem with that was that I was using a wooden shield... Somehow I lived, nut I panicked and started running around the arena. Not once did the host try and heal me. So I ran to the other half of the area and quick swapped my Wolf Ring for the RTSR and cast a Great Fireball. Me and the Golem ended up knocking each-other out... stupid Razor Wind Attack. And As I'm Dying... the host runs up to the center of the stage and does the "Joy" gesture. Dafuq?

    I actually ran into the guy in Anor Londo like an hour later. I summoned him before I realized who it was. I'm not sure how I missed the Drake Sword. He was as bad a phantom as he was a host. Didn't attack the sentinels, or the bat demons for that matter. Let me and the other guy handle the rafters while he went last. Only attacked the Silver Knights when he had a guaranteed backstab... screwed that up somehow. Only useful thing he did was run and open the gate while we took care of the Royal Sentinels. I BC'ed him and summoned Brolaire for the boss fight silly

    I died to Super O though... good thing he opened the gate


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by passivefamiliar on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:41 am

    After stopping playing for awhile and coming back i see it more now. Hosts just...not wanting to get touched.at all. I understand caution. When i'm the host, i do hang back, but i still fight. I just try and let the boss agro on the phantom. I still dish out damage and i don't turn tail and run outright in a fight, but the phantom is there to take the pressure off.

    And when i'm the phantom i intend to do that. And if your the host, you better at least help. Shoot arrows from a distance even if you want. But help, somehow.

    I go into fights with my own way to heal though, ive given up on counting on random hosts to heal. I can be almost dead, and if they have full hp they won't heal. Ever.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Aznul on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:50 am

    Sounds like there are a few hosts out there who just don't understand how this whole summoning system works. If the phantom dies, there is nothing to distract whatever big nasty you are trapped with and you will most likely die shortly after if you actually needed help for the fight.

    Personally, I have not gotten one of these "lazy hosts" yet, and for that I am glad. But when I summon, I try to keep everyone alive, even though I might mess up and miss some heals if I start getting focused on. I know that usually one or both of my summons survives.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by Walter_White on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:59 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    AFROJT wrote:I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    I also misunderstood him - i think he meant it to the OP "hate it if they lure around in the background in bossfight"

    AFROJT wrote:
    Walter_White wrote:
    AFROJT wrote:I could care less
    what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    ...i
    send phantoms home or suicide if they do something stupid...better
    losing souls/humantiy than one playthrough for nothing (if i want tail
    cutoff, or Ornstein/Smough first and phantom doesnt cooperate)...sorry
    no souls & humanity for you

    The best way to get the
    souls and humanity is to help kill everything in the level. I'll
    normally lead the host to whatever items are in the area, and kill
    whatever enemies there are. Once we're in the boss fight, if they have a
    tail or something I try and cut it off. If we fail at that, I send them
    a message and give them the item.

    My job is to help the host whilst being summoned, not just go after the boss.

    Just want to add: Look what the host wants - if the hosts wants a bossrun it's uncool to wait for a phantom who runs around anywhere in the level instead keep by the host and try to find out, what the hosts wants to do. It's anoying when you jump from the stairway in Arnor Londo to make a bossrun without opening the shortcut and the phantom runs upstairs to fight the mimics...
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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by BleuNoir on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:29 pm

    if you're a host and expect me to do most of the fighting I won't like you. I expect at least some help other then plinking arrows.


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    Re: Hosts who loaf in the background during a boss fight

    Post by AFROJT on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:07 pm

    Walter_White wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    AFROJT wrote:I could care less what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    I also misunderstood him - i think he meant it to the OP "hate it if they lure around in the background in bossfight"

    AFROJT wrote:
    Walter_White wrote:
    AFROJT wrote:I could care less
    what the host does, I just want the souls and humanity.

    ...i
    send phantoms home or suicide if they do something stupid...better
    losing souls/humantiy than one playthrough for nothing (if i want tail
    cutoff, or Ornstein/Smough first and phantom doesnt cooperate)...sorry
    no souls & humanity for you

    The best way to get the
    souls and humanity is to help kill everything in the level. I'll
    normally lead the host to whatever items are in the area, and kill
    whatever enemies there are. Once we're in the boss fight, if they have a
    tail or something I try and cut it off. If we fail at that, I send them
    a message and give them the item.

    My job is to help the host whilst being summoned, not just go after the boss.

    Just want to add: Look what the host wants - if the hosts wants a bossrun it's uncool to wait for a phantom who runs around anywhere in the level instead keep by the host and try to find out, what the hosts wants to do. It's anoying when you jump from the stairway in Arnor Londo to make a bossrun without opening the shortcut and the phantom runs upstairs to fight the mimics...

    Yeah, I probably should have explained that a bit better. I meant I could care less while we're in the actual fight. In fact, I normally prefer if the host stays back a little so I(and maybe the other phantom) can keep the boss in aggro. I normally try and stick with the host as much as possible, if they're looking for items I try and lead them to them, if they want the boss tail I normally try and get it, if they want to run straight into the boss fight, I do the same, and try to clear out a path before them.


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