White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by lextune on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:34 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:2 watch and 6help. and again by the archives you have most everything available to you, so i can't think of any invasion as griefing. It was a fair fight. and yes being invaded when you're not looking for a fight is irritating. if it makes a difference, when i'm the host i dont get involved untill/unless my phantoms die. i let him heal too, not because of any ethical code, because i want a good fight and 3v1 isnt a good fight. i'll concede that helping the host is the primary goal of most co-op.

    My level 50 darkwraith wipes out 3 on 1's all the time in Anor. Those are "good fights" from my perspective. winking

    Unless the host is farming invaders there is no excuse in the world to put down your summon sign then stand around watching him host fight. Utterly ridiculous.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by lextune on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:37 am

    I have made thousands of invasions, and seen thousands upon thousands of white phantoms.

    100% of them have done everything in their power to try and kill me, and that is exactly as it should be.

    When I invade I ASSUME it is going to be a 2 or 3 on 1. ....Why else would a person play human if it wasn't to summon help?


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by SKhalazza on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:39 am

    I try to kill the invader too.

    If you're a white phatom you've been invited in the host's world to help. Th invader is a stranger in this world and has not been invated. He has nothing to do there. It's your job to kill him.

    I don't even mind backstabbing him while he spawn. I just seek war and he's got it. No pity for an invader as a white/gold phantom.

    If I'm the host and alone, I tend to try a duel if the invader don't rush me and bow. I do it myself has an invader when 1vs1. I even bow when the host was summoning. :suspect:


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Specter737 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:07 am

    Judging solely on his choice of equipment, and him spamming WoG, I feel that it's the duty of a white phantom to step in, in those occasions. He was clearly, obviously, blatantly a griefer, and in proper form, all respect for him goes (or at least SHOULD go) right out the window.

    I'll be the nice guy here, and say that it's clear you had good intentions, which is unfortunately far more than many people do, just use this as a learning experience!


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 am

    I see it as it's a random invasion, he's not out to gank he wants to do the boss and as a phantom you do absolutely everything you can to get him to the boss if you have to drag him there kicking and screaming like the incompetent fool he obviously was.

    I just see myself as a merc for hire, I'm getting souls from it so I'll do whatever they want, as long as it's not a camp'n'gank


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by djgq42 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:38 am

    if you are going to help than help. i don't see a point in creating all kinds of conditions, keeping in my mind that the host was invaded and by definiton forced in to a pvp situation. i don't particitapte in pvp myself and i can't remeber the last time i was invaded by a non- griefer (but always send a thank you msg when it happens, even if i lose).
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:51 am

    I think you play the way that feels right for you but I am glad you asked the question as seeing other people's thoughts might give you a different perspective and maybe alter any future instances. To add to the conversation with my thoughts. In all areas besides Kiln and Forest, you are more likely to be summoned for jolly cooperation. I would only stand back from the invader if you have a general aversion to 2v1. In other words, if the idea of fighting Seath, or a Channeler, or a Crystal Golem 2v1 is reprehensible to you then by all means avoid the fight. My guess is that most people are ok with double teaming the non-human controlled entities but from a battle philosophy this is ethically the same. When clearing the area an invader is just another obstacle that must be destroyed to proceed. Do so with no prejudice or restraint. Lightning Zweihander backstab if you can while Havel flipping all over the place.

    Regarding known areas or circumstances (dried finger) for farming it's up to your sensibilities. I posted a few days ago about how I was summoned at the Kiln by a farmer. I stood back as he and another phantom did the work. Then I noticed some players looked like they wanted the 3v1 and, when evidence presented itself that this was the case, I gave it to them. I have no issue with being a training dummy for an elite player. When the host and another phantom (then later a different other phantom) started doing some things I didn't agree with, I resorted to just hanging out. Why? By being present I took one of his farmer slots that led to jack for him.

    So.....just do what you feel is the right thing. It's a game that's meant to be played your way.

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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by befowler on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:08 am

    I always help. There's nothing more painful than trying to get through a level while knowing the clock is ticking on invasions, and finally summoning someone (often after summon fail msgs and disappearing summon signs) only for them to be idle or worse. I really miss demon soul's summon rating system.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by djgq42 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:09 am

    ^ this
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by White Mamba on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:14 am

    I can't stand when I am summoned and expected to fight for them. I am more than happy to help through levels but I don't want to sit around and fight invaders all day by myself while they sit there and get all these souls and humanity from my work. I would host if I wanted that to happen
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Akatik on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:26 am

    If doing a boss run, White Phantoms should help out the host in every way possible. If summoned for PvP only, then you shouldn't support that kind of behavior.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:29 am

    I almost always help. The only time I didn't is when I was summoned to farm in Kiln. Instead I went ahead and killed all the knights and then watched as an invader killed the other 2v1. Anywhere else though and I will always help the host, even if their sole intention is to farm invaders like in Anor, the forest, Dukes or even painted.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by strangejoy on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:01 pm

    It looks like OP conceded that he was wrong. I won't pile on, but I will say that I find it odd that someone would down-rep him for conceding the argument. He asked for our opinions, got our opinions, and then changed his mind. That's a good thing.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by WarriorOfSunlight on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:10 pm

    Ethics are of no value if the host is face first in a pool of blood. It's not like you don't get free souls and no death penalty for being a white phantom.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by berkut on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:42 pm

    strangejoy wrote:It looks like OP conceded that he was wrong. I won't pile on, but I will say that I find it odd that someone would down-rep him for conceding the argument. He asked for our opinions, got our opinions, and then changed his mind. That's a good thing.

    Agreed, I found that odd when I read it as well. While I disagree with the author, I felt it unfortunate that some of the above posts were harshly worded towards to OP. The OP was quite reasonable in their tone and the way they phrased their sentences, coming off as non-confrontational as possible. I am concerned that the OP may be slightly turned off from creating opinion topics in the future. sad


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yesuurd on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 pm

    The fact of the matter is his intentions were good, dunno about other invaders or DW but me I am up for anything and we don't loose anything.All of you know I hate farmers and most of us in the forum do but we have also said there would be less fun for us invaders if we didn't have them also, so if it is not entirely certain that a guy is farming just go ahead and help him, invaders know what they are going up against or they should know, we are
    uninvited invaders, maybe even sometimes people are exchanging stuff and we come and spoli the party or whatever who knows, so any decent DW is up for anything thrown at him or atleast that's my view.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:12 pm

    berkut wrote:Agreed, I found that odd when I read it as well. While I disagree with the author, I felt it unfortunate that some of the above posts were harshly worded towards to OP. The OP was quite reasonable in their tone and the way they phrased their sentences, coming off as non-confrontational as possible. I am concerned that the OP may be slightly turned off from creating opinion topics in the future. sad
    you know how it is, sticks and stones and all that. you're correct though in that i'm not trying to argue, only to explain how i saw things and find out wether or not i was misguided. I still don't like fighting 2v1 (unless i'm the 1) but, as i said, it seems the majority, here and elsewhere, believe i should have gotten involved, so, from here on i shall.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yesuurd on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:17 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    berkut wrote:Agreed, I found that odd when I read it as well. While I disagree with the author, I felt it unfortunate that some of the above posts were harshly worded towards to OP. The OP was quite reasonable in their tone and the way they phrased their sentences, coming off as non-confrontational as possible. I am concerned that the OP may be slightly turned off from creating opinion topics in the future. sad
    you know how it is, sticks and stones and all that. you're correct though in that i'm not trying to argue, only to explain how i saw things and find out wether or not i was misguided. I still don't like fighting 2v1 (unless i'm the 1) but, as i said, it seems the majority, here and elsewhere, believe i should have gotten involved, so, from here on i shall.

    I agree on this too, whenever someone here speaks about anything no matter what and they are doing so respectfully, we should all watch how we respond and be as respectful also.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by zzCLR2Rzz on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 pm

    when i get summonned i attack anyone going after the host


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:03 pm

    Final notes then.
    1; The majority here and elsewhere have the opinion that i should have gotten involved. I will amend my conduct to fit this guide line.
    2; If you're not willing to do most anything to protect the host, putting down your sign is seen as unfair to the host.
    I'm editing the topic to make it clear a consensus has been reached. Further discussion is fine but i've the information i asked for.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by djgq42 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:12 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Final notes then.
    1; The majority here and elsewhere have the opinion that i should have gotten involved. I will amend my conduct to fit this guide line.
    2; If you're not willing to do most anything to protect the host, putting down your sign is seen as unfair to the host.
    I'm editing the topic to make it clear a consensus has been reached. Further discussion is fine but i've the information i asked for.



    well said and i commend you on handling the various opinons. (+1)

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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by PPG-3- on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:17 pm

    i was told on this forum that there is a big difference between dueling and invading.

    during an invasion, i think its fine to 3v1 the invader. If your the invader, you can't cry about it. You deal with it. I have had many of those and was still successful. If the invader sees the host is stepping back. then you are free to fight the phantoms first. 1v1 or 2v1, its up to them to decide. Not the invader.

    ut as a phantom your job is to protect the host. an invader gets treated just the same as any other enemy in the game. would you stand back and watch the host defeat seath too?
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yesuurd on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:44 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Final notes then.
    1; The majority here and elsewhere have the opinion that i should have gotten involved. I will amend my conduct to fit this guide line.
    2; If you're not willing to do most anything to protect the host, putting down your sign is seen as unfair to the host.
    I'm editing the topic to make it clear a consensus has been reached. Further discussion is fine but i've the information i asked for.


    Well said...

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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:47 pm

    I find it pretty amusing that all this random, spontaneous "etiquette" has evolved within the game, and that the tens of thousands of people who don't visit these forums are supposed to be attuned to that. Considering the frequency with which people invade and interrupt a host's game with the ever popular backstab, I think that any time you put down a sign, you should be willing to help. Personally, I'm not that great at PvP. If I get invaded, I'll probably lose 8 times out of 10. If I summon someone, I want to have a little backup so that I can get through a tough section of the game, or a boss, without being killed. That's simply the way the game works. Don't assume that every host goes for the whole "pistols at dawn" code of ethics. Sometimes they just want to wreck an invader any way they can and move on.
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by zzCLR2Rzz on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:03 pm

    I find it pretty amusing that all this random, spontaneous "etiquette" has evolved within the game, and that the tens of thousands of people who don't visit these forums are supposed to be attuned to that. Considering the frequency with which people invade and interrupt a host's game with the ever popular backstab, I think that any time you put down a sign, you should be willing to help. Personally, I'm not that great at PvP. If I get invaded, I'll probably lose 8 times out of 10. If I summon someone, I want to have a little backup so that I can get through a tough section of the game, or a boss, without being killed. That's simply the way the game works. Don't assume that every host goes for the whole "pistols at dawn" code of ethics. Sometimes they just want to wreck an invader any way they can and move on.


    Agreed,


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