White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

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    White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:30 pm

    i was told off a few minutes ago because i was summoned into a players world while they were being invaded and i refused to team up on the invader. Was i out of line? The way i see it neither of us get any better fighting 2v1, and if i can't win alone i dont deserve too. this was in the archives btw. what do you guys think?


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Henkyona on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:46 pm

    Sounds to me like you did the right thing, however if the guy was wear Giant's I'd say F'em.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yarxov on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:49 pm

    That was me :evil:
    The guy was clearly a griefer, full giants with Mask of the mother, Fire Greatsword and WotG Spam. He eventually lagstabbed me, killing me instantly. I was not farming, had no OP equipment other than the DWGR (not even Havel's Ring), and was simply trying to get Seath. It's one thing If I was farming, but when I am making a legitimate run for the boss Phantoms should help. Kiln 2v1 is wrong, gangbanging is too, but don't just screw the host over by making him fight a griefer.

    P.S. Your signature is wrong,


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:01 am

    i know your opinion and i'm sorry you feel that way. that is why i'm going for a general consensus, if the majority of the forum agrees with you i'll strongly consider changing my policy.
    and my signature isnt wrong, i simply value personal skill. i invaded and killed him about a minute later (blind parry ftw).


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:16 am

    Phantoms job to help the host, you failed your job by standing around. Why did you put a sign down if your not going to help?


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:19 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:i know your opinion and i'm sorry you feel that way. .
    That sounds a bit snobbish. :\
    Anyways, I had this equipped:
    Great scythe +15
    Black knight shield +5
    Fog Ring
    DWGR
    Crystaline Helm
    Embraced Armor +5
    Gold Hemmed gloves
    Leggins of Favor +5
    With
    25 vit (933 Health)
    30 End
    and 40+ Dex (can't remember exact number.)

    The other guy had this from what I saw:
    Mask of Mother
    Giants armor (+5)
    Fire Greatsword (+X)
    Black Knight shield (+X)
    talisman
    WoTG (which he spammed like hell)
    Plus he had over 1800 Health (I backstabbed him for 667 and only took out a quarter to a third)
    and enough stamina to swing the GS 5 times (2H)

    He was an obvious griefer, and I was doing good until he lagstabbed me.

    P.S. Thanks Mildred


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by User on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:30 am

    Eh, depends. Depends on what the invaded and invader both are. I helped a dude fight against a Havel/Giant Combo Armor with a BKGS, as well as a Mask of Child and Bloodshield on; while my summoner was wearing Black Hemmed Hood with Black Thorn Armor, with a Spiked Shield and a notched whip. Helped my partner.

    When I saw a Full Giant with either the clonothy ring or such as well as a BKGA, and the invader being something of less status and seemingly was less armored and equip, I just watched. Seeing as I saw my summoner try to make me help him while he might or might not try to PvP with such equipment... I just watched the fight. He died. I was not surprised.

    Just depends on what I see, and why I am summoned. As how you are summoned to help against such a Griefer, I would have helped my partner. It just depends, but I would have.
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by gammlesvarte on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:38 am

    i never attack when i gett summond and the summoner has a invader in his world..it just dosent feel right to uneven the odds


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:39 am

    Even if the odds are already uneven? (as was my case) The invader has every AI in the world on his side. Least you could do is help the host (who has more at risk btw)


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by gammlesvarte on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:41 am

    no not when they are fighting at bonfire


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by bloodpixel on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:42 am

    I attack the invader with the force of a thousand suns because I know how annoying it is to get invaded when all you're trying to do is kill a boss.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yarxov on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:42 am

    But the host still loses 1 humanity


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by User on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:44 am

    True. The Archives is not a friendly place for such things in PvP. If it was in Kirn or such, it might have been reasonable. And when I mean might, I mean depends. The Archives would have been more reasonable to help your partner. Crystal Golems and Hollows... Clams... Butterflies. Thank god he doesn't know how to use alluring skulls, nor Aural Decoy.
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by RANT on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:48 am

    what mildred said, dont put your sign down if your not gonna help. im pretty sure he didnt summon you cause he just wanted company.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:51 am

    Most ppl summon phantoms to help with pve(exceptions, kiln and forest) if you put you sign diwn anywhere but those to places, you need to assume the host is trying to pve(untill host proves otherwise by using the finger for example) therefore you should be helping against any invaders. If your looking for pvp in pve areas, man up and get a body/invade, dont expect a random host to want to host fair 1v1 fights.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by CrackSouls on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:56 am

    I think as a white phantom it is your duty to go with the player. Some times they don't want to fight 1v1, and they just want to move on. Think about all the players that are new, and scared **** of losing their humanity/souls.
    I do fight 1v1 and take turns during invades now, but when I was a beginner definitely not... Plus, a lot of invaders are "twinking" anyway and a 2v1 would give them some real practice for once.
    It comes down to what SL what level, I guess.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 am

    2 watch and 6help. and again by the archives you have most everything available to you, so i can't think of any invasion as griefing. It was a fair fight. and yes being invaded when you're not looking for a fight is irritating. if it makes a difference, when i'm the host i dont get involved untill/unless my phantoms die. i let him heal too, not because of any ethical code, because i want a good fight and 3v1 isnt a good fight. i'll concede that helping the host is the primary goal of most co-op.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by fearandwhiskey on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:01 am

    It's strange that this happened with two people here, but my answer in any case is that the phantom's job is to protect the host. As a phantom, if I die I lose nothing. I just re-spawn and put my summon sign down again. The host loses humanity.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:12 am

    What Mildred said. PvE is not PvP. As a white, you are there to help the host, even if it means dying.

    Plus, the host is being invaded while questing. All etiquette is off, and anything goes. Do anything to kill the invader.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Danthuyer on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:33 am

    IMHO - The Ethics of a white phantom are clear "To assist the summoner to achieve his or her goal"

    If this is PvE then killing hard mobs and then continuing onto the boss or just the boss that is what you need to do.

    If it is PvP because they have summoned you during in an invasion and they need your help (as more often than not they are going to get WHOPED !)

    As Mildred, rant and others have mentioned you obliged to help where-ever you can

    You as a phantom having nothing to lose, where as the host has potentially hours of precious playtime to lose.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:34 am

    Well then, after the feedback and some thought, it appears i owe you an apology yarxov. from here on in i'll simply gank the dude and be done with it.

    why the down vote? i'm concedeing to the apparent majority of this and other forums.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by Yukon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:42 am

    Hey, new around here and just wanted to throw in my opinion as well.

    Personally I am never quite sure to double up on an invader in PvP as a phantom, but as a general rule I think the white phantom should be the first to engage. The host is there to HOST, if they die the session ends, so wouldn't it make more sense to attack the invader as you are the white phantom instead of risking the end of the session by letting the host go first?

    Usually summoners are fairly clear on what they want to do, if you are camping for invader 1v1's then hell yeah, if he makes clear he wants to be the first to attack by all means grab a soda and watch the fight. But, if he doesn't make the first move as the phantom you should be jumping in and the host should be spectating.

    You even said yourself above " if it makes a difference, when i'm the host i dont get involved untill/unless my phantoms die. "


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by RANT on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:39 am

    you said it yourself, its irritating when someone invades you while youre trying to get throught a level,he summoned you cause he needed help. if you get summoned and someone invades theres no code or any of the bs, he invaded so he should expect to have an unfair fight if the hosts has phantoms since the only thing hes trying to do is kill the boss and the invader is trying to screw him over, unless hes farming invaders in which case i would just crystal out. if anyone feels like they shouldnt help they should put down their psn here so i know not to summon you in ng++++.


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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by russiannightmare on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:59 am

    if I put my summon sign down I always help the host until proven that he or she is doing something like using the dried finger
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    Re: White phantom ethics. RESOLVED

    Post by lextune on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:28 am

    Maneater_Mildred wrote:Phantoms job to help the host, you failed your job by standing around. Why did you put a sign down if your not going to help?

    ^This

    What the hell dude? Lol.

    The entire purpose of dropping your sign is to do anything to keep the host alive.

    If you get summoned to the Kiln or the forest and they are just farming that is the only reason I can see to not help in every way possible (in which case you should just crystal out).


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