The true essence of Dark Souls

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    xSomax
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by xSomax on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:39 pm

    on the flip side, lunar should be more compassionate to new players. that street goes both ways, big time.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:44 pm

    We can only change ourselves.

    Look, I wasn't trying to get into the middle of your argument. I just got a quick overview of the thread and gave my two cents, it wasn't even directed at you.
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by xSomax on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:48 pm

    duly noted, sorry if i sounded like i was blaming you or anything. wasn't meant that way.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:00 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:Dealing with people who you don't like and won't convert to your train of thought is life.

    I am dealing with it, by telling her I don't like her or people like her. If she doesn't care, that's fine; however, I should still be allowed to express my contempt. If I can't express it, then why should she be allowed to continue making threads about greifing? When you say or do something, you open yourself up to all kinds of criticism. That is something everyone has to accept, because it's also a part of life.

    I don't know the history of this thread, but you should be more compassionate to your fellow forum posters.

    I should be, and indeed I've probably broken some of the forum rules with some of my comments. However, I don't think griefers should just be allowed to do whatever they please.

    If she wants to grief, then grief... but she should keep it to herself.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:01 pm

    eww, the damn "two cents" thing strikes again.

    damn i hate that phrase, it's like you feel like you have to give a reason and apologise to have a position on something..


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:05 pm

    xSomax wrote:duly noted, sorry if i sounded like i was blaming you or anything. wasn't meant that way.

    No apology is necessary, but I do want to retract my statement that we can only change ourselves. That's obviously not true, but we shouldn't try to change other people until we are at peace with ourselves, and even then it should be done more skillfully then by airing our contempt.

    My comment was just at the argument in general, which is one of those never-ending ones because it is one basic way of thinking versus the other. I call it the Law of the Jungle versus the Law of Man. Some players adhere to one, some to the other. Those who choose the first are probably more likely to be folks with certain negativity present in their minds, and further airing of negativeness isn't going to change anything and instead will make it worse. So if I feel compelled to try and help I do so in a positive way or not at all. At least, most of the time.
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Onion Knight on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:06 pm

    Now while everyone is happily arguing with each other over the broader sense of griefing I'd like to butt in and point something out that's in that god awfully boring and e-p*nis massaging video.

    The guy is not only griefing new players , but also clearly a twink too.

    It's like a window highlighting all the things wrong in this games broken 'community.'



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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:09 pm

    Onion Knight wrote:Now while everyone is happily arguing with each other over the broader sense of griefing I'd like to butt in and point something out that's in that god awfully boring and e-p*nis massaging video.

    The guy is not only griefing new players , but also clearly a twink too.

    It's like a window highlighting all the things wrong in this games broken 'community.'


    At first I thought the guy was just another Soul brother making a funny, sarcastic video, but if you skip to the latter part of the video and watch his other grief tutorials you will gather from his egotistical little remarks here and there that he has a big time insecurity complex. Now I regret watching them and pity the poor guy.
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:11 pm

    Lunar I'm not sure what made you do this, but looking at your reasons I think you are slightly sadist. I actullay tried to see things your way and I can't. I felt ashamed to cause your type of grief on newer players. I'm not trying to convert you, that's your choice which I know is a no. Fun or whatever you feel from this has consequnces(?). Do whatever you want.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Onion Knight on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:16 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:
    Onion Knight wrote:Now while everyone is happily arguing with each other over the broader sense of griefing I'd like to butt in and point something out that's in that god awfully boring and e-p*nis massaging video.

    The guy is not only griefing new players , but also clearly a twink too.

    It's like a window highlighting all the things wrong in this games broken 'community.'


    At first I thought the guy was just another Soul brother making a funny, sarcastic video, but if you skip to the latter part of the video and watch his other grief tutorials you will gather from his egotistical little remarks here and there that he has a big time insecurity complex. Now I regret watching them and pity the poor guy.

    I think the top comments and the video rating summed up the whole experience.
    And yes, yes he does, anyone willing to waist countless hours doing something like this has a clear problem.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by densetsushun on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:18 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:Dealing with people who you don't like and won't convert to your train of thought is life.

    I am dealing with it, by telling her I don't like her or people like her. If she doesn't care, that's fine; however, I should still be allowed to express my contempt. If I can't express it, then why should she be allowed to continue making threads about greifing? When you say or do something, you open yourself up to all kinds of criticism. That is something everyone has to accept, because it's also a part of life.
    This is very true, you can have you opinion on something and express it, that's the thing about freedom of expression. But like it or not, Lunar has freedom of expression as well, so she could keep posting about griefing. If those who disagreed with it really wanted to do something useful to that cause, they'd ignore the thread and let it die, not kindle the bonfire(sorry about the pun silly) with oppossing arguments.

    What I can take from this thread is that you'll neither change Lunar's mind(not that I think anyone tried to), nor get an explanation out that isn't simply "it's fun". And why shouldn't that be the explanation? That's her opinion and how she wants to enjoy the game. Yes, it may cripple the DkS experience for new players, but hell, so many other things do. If you disagree/want new players to have a better experience you can do that by helping them with co-op, showing them the ropes even, teaching them that hey, griefing happens man.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by xSomax on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:18 pm

    fair point. i'm not getting anything constructive done here, so i'll just move along. if he's going to grief, then thats his(or her, i dunno) problem.

    on a side note, i notice you changed your pic soris. pretty cool


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:23 pm

    On topic: If LunarFog's going to grief fine. I might run into him and it'll be interesting to how that encounter will go.

    Side note: Thanks! Photoshop is amazing to use.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by densetsushun on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:32 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:On topic: If LunarFog's going to grief fine. I might run into him and it'll be interesting to how that encounter will go.

    Side note: Thanks! Photoshop is amazing to use.
    Off topic: Another Arty fan? big grin
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by fujiphoenix on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:18 pm

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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:09 pm

    fujiphoenix wrote:

    and i'm usually the one to crack out the zoidberg reference...

    Damn i must be slow on the gun today


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Odinbear on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:08 pm

    xSomax wrote:odin. you're missing the point. lunar can do whatever the hell he wants, and thats fine. what we're saying is that ruining a new players experience is hurting the community. imagine if he invaded you throughout your first playthrough and basically made it impossible to do anything. would you have kept playing? probably not. thats the problem i have with it. about when they get to the depths, i don't care. maybe even the church. but invading a totally new player, who hasn't played for more than about half an hour maybe, then *** up his save? theres no reason for it. its just for sick kicks. it turns off new players who would otherwise become great players, and maybe even join the forum. but instead, they got some ******* who decided it was funny to make their life in the beginning hell, and they stopped playing. see the problem with that? he CAN fight people who have a semblance of a chance, but chooses not too, just to ruin some new guys save? thats sadistic at best. imagine how much bigger the community would be if lunar and people like him had held off till the church. we'd have a LOT more players, which means a LOT more PvP, and a LOT more fun. but instead, we have less because he decided he wanted to haze the new guy, by tying him up and attaching a car battery to his nipples. this isn't about what he can do. its about what the consequences are.

    Sure, I'd just start another char or push onwards with the fate given disadvantage . Making chars is ez in DkS. Hell, I've been as far as Anor Londo b4 and killed the blacksmith, said oh **** and started another char. Of course I kept playing the blacksmith killer and he was a good blacksmith, puts that char at a disadvantage but it's just a game. Came with no rule book.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Odinbear on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:10 pm

    And I gotta,say this, what drew me to this game was the "mystic" of the red invader. Nervous but stimulating to get those first invasions. Gosh darn fun even. Lol

    Since then, I've been baited to pick up rubbish only to get shot off a cliff, set on fire, stabbed in the back, dark magicked to death , baited to play on elevators, and more. Some honest duels mixed in there too,... and all fun times. Can't say an invader will bait me to fight around an NPC,Though, just seems stupid ( but a neat "red trick" strategy). If a red gets you to beat yourself by falling for a simple trick, you really should only be mad at yourself.. I always laugh when I see a red run into a mob and my host follows, omg. Let's be the cat and wait for that mouse is the game we should be playing, but the host falls for the trick. Guess what, they usually die, even with help. Mobs are brutal, sometimes.
    Tricksters should be a covenant.


    Last edited by Odinbear on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by xSomax on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:11 pm

    whatever. i already said i'm done here, so do what you will.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by Odinbear on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:31 pm

    xSomax wrote:whatever. i already said i'm done here, so do what you will.

    Heh, I rarely invade. Most my chars are sunbro and, way of the white (for co-oping through those nasty reds), oh and a forest protector.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:34 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Clearly there is some need to feel powerful, or else you wouldn't need to see how much influence you have over the way others play. You say you do it for the fun, but the way you have fun is through extending your power over others i.e. control.
    Lol. Why is it so hard to just accept that I do this because it's fun. Causing permanent damage is more exciting, and dare I say, fulfilling, than doing something that can be forgotten in a few minutes. There's no need to feel my power over weaklings(I have my SL 99 builds for that), or to control people's fate or whatever. Just pure, "innocent" fun.

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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by fujiphoenix on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:35 pm

    You need help...
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by PlasticandRage on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:42 pm

    LunarFog wrote: Just pure, "innocent" fun.

    See that's the thing. It's not innocent fun. Its fun at someone else's expense. That's part of what you don't seem to be getting that we're all having a problem with. A lot of you are also justifying it as something that your character is doing, and not you, and I don't really see it entirely that way. You're making the decision to torment someone else to such a degree that it's most likely preventing their innocent fun. Understand? And to post about glorifying it in a community filled with so many people who are, more often than not, dedicated to helping these same people, when they show up asking for advice, is just a little silly. Most of us are here doing the exact opposite. Of course we don't like it.


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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by fujiphoenix on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:51 pm

    This thread should be closed. It was made for the purpose of talking about how awesome griefing is, and predictably, it has been derailed into talking about everything other than the intended subject. I doubt there is any way in hell of it being turned around to its intended subject, and it's going no were. There is no point in keeping it going.
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    Re: The true essence of Dark Souls

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:53 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:
    LunarFog wrote: Just pure, "innocent" fun.

    See that's the thing. It's not innocent fun. Its fun at someone else's expense. That's part of what you don't seem to be getting that we're all having a problem with. A lot of you are also justifying it as something that your character is doing, and not you, and I don't really see it entirely that way. You're making the decision to torment someone else to such a degree that it's most likely preventing their innocent fun. Understand? And to post about glorifying it in a community filled with so many people who are, more often than not, dedicated to helping these same people, when they show up asking for advice, is just a little silly. Most of us are here doing the exact opposite. Of course we don't like it.
    That's why I put the quotes. I'm fully aware that what I(I as the person, not the character) am doing is frowned upon by most people. But hey. Gotta keep a villain around or else things get boring amirite?


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