Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

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    Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by justwant2play on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:02 am

    I prefer the Demon's Souls world system where you have a Nexus (or home base) and you can warp to a different world by touching something. Anyone disagree?


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Juutas on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:10 am

    I would hate the Nexus-style main hub system. I LOVED the way map/level design was made in Dark Souls, it was superb! I would gladly see it again and see all those cool shortcuts brought back.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by hageshisa on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 am

    Both map systems are good. I totally get both of your opinions.

    Im really new to Demon's but I like the Nexus because it makes the whole world seem bigger. You warp across a big land to different parts to execute your quest. Compared to DkS which is a fairly small area (Im not saying that the map is small, but compared with a huge land I belive it is. DkS is basically just burg, anor, darkroot and blight/demon).

    But the whole "explore the world" feel that DkS brings is also hard to match. And it's definatly more confusing which is one of my favorit elements in games I havn't played before


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:18 am

    I think though that the fact demons felt bigger is probably because it was the levels are way longer, especially world 3 and 5, they just seem to stretch out so far!

    I wouldn't like the nexus system back though. As good as it was to be given free reign over where you go first, i gotta say the open world is simply superior. It gives you a much stronger feeling of exploration and that your playing is a true journey, rather than demons where you went back and forth more times than a nodding dog. I also like the idea that you can kill most enemies in the game without seeing a single loading screen.

    The open world is where it's at. For games like souls where it is intended to be a pure gameplay based experience, seamless adventuring and avoidance of loading screens is the preferable optionn in my opinion (though you get warp later on obviously)


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by hageshisa on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:21 am

    As a counter-argument you will die alot and still get lots of loading screens, so you wont save much time just because you skip the "area-loadings" when you travel. And for most parts, warping is a popular feature of DkS which basically is the same thing.

    But yes, to travel without loadingscreens are nice and the fact that the world is "open" is almost necessary in games today.

    But I still like both systems very much ^_^


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:30 am

    I wasn't arguing really from an avoiding time wasting point of view. It's just more immersive when you can run, kill an area and boss, then run back to your safe little hidey hole to level up, upgrade your equipment then throw yourself back into the hostile reaches of the land you're in.

    The only thing for me that made up for that in demons souls was the fact the levels were much longer. If they had been too short, the immersion would never set in quite like it does in dark souls.. but they're all anor londo/ blighttown length, so they're fine.. Though next game i do want every level to be at least the size of blighttown and anor londo, long intricate levels are so much more fun!


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by hageshisa on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:42 am

    Fair enough! Can't say that I didn't love the feeling when i looked around and I saw areas I already expolre from other vistas


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by defacto on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:00 pm

    The Nexus is broken.

    You can either have a choice on where to go for the levels and then all of the early levels are easy once you beat just one of them. The other option is to have the illusion of choice.

    This is where the levels get progressively harder but you don't know which order to do them in at first. Kind of like a Mega Man game.
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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:07 pm

    The only problem with that then is when you come to doing your most hated level last.. Could you imagine doing world 5-2 last and the giant depraved are the **** of all enemies? I think that's a bit broken still..

    Then again we get choice in dark souls. You CAN choose to do quelaag first. You can take on Sif before you'd killed any other boss in the game. You could do both of these, but you'd be a challenge seeker (or just plain crazy) to do so. In the same way you can leave a boss like ceaseless discharge till right at the end of the game ad he'd be massively easy, the same with pinwheel. Wherever you're given a choice it will always have effects on the other parts of your journey, but that's just how it is with any game where your character progresses.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by carlucio on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:29 pm

    Dark Souls system was much better.
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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Bioraptor on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:30 pm

    I have yet to play DeS (I will buy myself a PS3 one day)
    So for me to comment I can only go off DkS.I have seen UTube vids of the Nexsus although its not the same as being there an playing through it....I loved the whole DkS thing.Yeah we all soon realise that the world is not as big as it first seemed.But the whole feeling of going where you wanted an learning how areas all came together like a jig/saw was fantastic imo....I hope they carry the flame on for DkS II.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by MosquitoPower on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:16 pm

    Here is my argument for an open world map system...

    Dark Souls starts out open world until you get Lordvessel, then it sort of becomes a hub world system with the warps, it’s the best of both worlds… warp if you want, walk it you want. It’s a great system. Only problem is that when backtracking you know where every enemy is going to be.

    So if this system comes back in Dark Souls 2, they need bring in random encounters…
    I think this will work out because Fallout had a similar system as Dark Souls… you could walk, or you could warp to a place you have been before. But the edge in Fallout was the random encounters, when going from point A to B you may run into anything on the way there.

    Dark Souls 2, First trip through a zone/area, set location for all monsters, but after the boss is defeated, random types (yet still themed for the zone) and locations.
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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:23 pm

    MosquitoPower wrote:Dark Souls 2, First trip through a zone/area, set location for all monsters, but after the boss is defeated, random types (yet still themed for the zone) and locations.

    I love this idea. Allow for accessible progress through the area by set enemies and progress to the boss- i.e. the learning curve and next challenge, then random spawning of enemies- maintaining freshness of gameplay and interest in moving from area to are.

    However this is an idea that probably won't be implemented, there's a reason dark souls has set enemies and it's because the game rewards learning. Learning moves of enemies, how many hits of your weapon kills something, how to lure enemies out carefully, the 'path of least resistance'. Having the ever changing worlds in dksII could undermine that.

    Well, that and also the inevitable necessary farming would become a nightmare if you wanted to do it post boss


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by MosquitoPower on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:51 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    MosquitoPower wrote:Dark Souls 2, First trip through a zone/area, set location for all monsters, but after the boss is defeated, random types (yet still themed for the zone) and locations.

    I love this idea. Allow for accessible progress through the area by set enemies and progress to the boss- i.e. the learning curve and next challenge, then random spawning of enemies- maintaining freshness of gameplay and interest in moving from area to are.

    However this is an idea that probably won't be implemented, there's a reason dark souls has set enemies and it's because the game rewards learning. Learning moves of enemies, how many hits of your weapon kills something, how to lure enemies out carefully, the 'path of least resistance'. Having the ever changing worlds in dksII could undermine that.

    Well, that and also the inevitable necessary farming would become a nightmare if you wanted to do it post boss

    Yes, you are right on the trouble that would cause for farming and the core game elements.

    I wonder, just for the sake of discussion, could this be balanced out if the randomness was limited to “dead space” areas. The places where you can’t put down white soapstone or any items like that.

    They may get rid of these “dead space” areas in Dark Souls 2, but here are the types of places im talking about:

    -Any boss room where they boss has already been defeated. Such big arena areas… never to see any action again, not even PVP =(

    -Transition points, Anor Londo beginning, that loooong hallway to Duke’s archive, etc.

    -Or bossless areas like Ash lake, Great Hollow or Vally of the drakes.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:09 pm

    I personally would love the chance to instead of having an official arena like there is in the DLC, having boss rooms as a sort of unofficial dueling spots. Once you kill the boss, it opens up for pvp via red soapstone (or whatever next games reincarnation is). I've always wanted to have a duel on top of the parish church, or on sen's bridge.

    This would be great to provide proper dueling areas free from gankers or the like.. however the problem with this is just like my niggle with the arena now. It kinda ruins the point of the online component when you take away the randomness by adding the arena.

    I'm not sure about using non connective areas though. They are few and far between, and i think it's a waste to just put it in there.. I think they should go all or nothing in terms of this randomness thing, every area can have it, conditions obviously vary, or none.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Onion Knight on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:57 pm

    Wasn't Firelink a sort of lame Nexus?
    I prefer Dark Souls world design, it has much better progression. Even though at the end of the day, you end up OP as hell in both games and steamroller the end game.
    The Nexus was really well designed though, it still looks gorgeous and cool, even after playing thousands of hours of Demon's Souls.


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:36 am

    Dark Souls every time, for numerous reasons.

    I like the Nexus, but it reminds me of Super Mario World in its structure, its really a series of different environments with no discernable visual link other than 'the nexus' which sometimes makes the nexus feel like a cop out because they maybe couldnt pull everything together effectively enough. So there isnt really anything to connect each of the areas and for me anyways, compared to DkS that breaks up the tension and your sense of immersion and it feels more like a 'game' than being 'dropped into this dark brooding environment. . ..

    The vertically stacked world of DkS is something I really havent seen before and you really do feel like youve been literally 'dropped' into a decaying hell, the sense of freedom on your arrival at firelink is both liberating and terrifying, just as it should be. When eventually you go looking for the joins between areas you notice that everything is just so beautifully put together, in fact, the thing with DkS is that it doent feel like it has been put together, it feels like one coherent whole, and thats the difference! The world design exudes craftsmanship, one of the great things about its interlinking verticality is that it gives you a real sense of scale when you can make a visual link between areas and unlike DeS it provides a visual and spatial explanation as to why the areas look the way they do.

    DkS world design is a masterpiece, it would be complete madness to change it!


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by raecor14 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:40 am

    to accommodate for everyone maybe they could like fuze the firelink and Nexus


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:54 am

    raecor14 wrote:to accommodate for everyone maybe they could like fuze the firelink and Nexus

    Yeah i reckon there's stuff they could do to make it even better, not sure which elements of the nexus i'd use though, I think every element in DkS is better, im sure i'll get plenty disagreeing with me, utterly wrong though they are lol


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:39 am

    I'm personally split on this. I prefer the open world style to the "level select" style. It really adds alot of depth to exploration, even with simple tasks such as "what's the fastest way to the blacksmith from here?" On the other hand, I much preferred the actual levels themselves in Demon's Souls. As to why, I'll once again quote the Sequilitis series since it does such a good job explaining it (he's comparing Castlevania 1 to Castlevania 2, but since the argument in both cases is linear vs open-world I think it's appropriate to still use):

    "So basically, Castlevania 1 is the perfect example of the advantage for linear gameplay. You can plan around 1 scenario. The player is coming in from 1 direction in any situation, and you can plan enemy and level placement accordingly. You can really give the player a tight, consistent experience that they'll remember forever."


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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by aprilmanha on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:06 pm

    Nexus Back please, I found the crazy layout of the DkS world to be annoying and off putting. DeS makes more sense.
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    Re: Do you like the fact that Dark Souls 2 will use the same map system?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:08 pm

    I think, from now on, just assume I agree with reaper unless I specify otherwise. Saves me time responding.


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