New take on Dark Sign "intent"

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    Shkar
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    New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:52 am

    Many of you are probably aware of my "Lord Souls = Planet's soul" theory (and yes, I made it first). There are even a few people who, I believe, are working it into their own interpretations. So I won't offer proof for that.

    In conjunction with this theory, however, is a new one. What is the "job" of a soul? At it's very core, what "is" it? Well, as the description for Humanity says, it is the "source of all life." So, if the planet has a soul, what does that imply?

    If you guessed, "THE PLANET IS ALIVE!1! ZOMG!!!!," then you are correct as to my point. Where I diverge from standard is how I interprete it. For you see, life is often connected to sentiency. For instance, the one enemy we KNOW doesn't actually die and is a simple "construct," the skeletons, didn't originally give souls. It also seems like the bigger the soul, the more powerful (and likely intelligent) the being.

    So if the world had the biggest soul of all, it likely makes it at least somewhat sentient. And there-in lies the issue: would YOU be happy if someone reached into you and scooped out even a piece of your soul? No, you probably wouldn't. You would probably at LEAST want it back, if not want to punish those who committed the act.

    Now, what character has the greatest link to the world? If you said, "Those freakish garter snakes that go all the way into it," then right again! The Primordial Serpents do indeed want seem as likely a candidate for the "head" of the world. And what do BOTH serpents actually agree on in the game?

    They both want you to collect the lord souls to open the gate. But wait, how did GWYN open the gate? HE didn't have all the lord souls! Could the serpents be lying to us?

    Well, perhaps. They disagree on everything else, but they both want you to gather the Lord Souls.

    Almost as if that's their true goal...


    TL,DR: The serpents may be the "heads" of the world and may be guiding the player not out of any plan for the flame, but to instead "re-collect" the parts of its soul that were stolen. They may have also engineered the whole undead curse in order to try to drive the humans to this goal.

    As an additional note, the flame dying may literally be the world dying after its soul was stolen. If this is teh case, the dark ending wouldn't be the flame "dying" so much as being "hidden."


    Last edited by Shkar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:15 am

    That... Seems reasonable. Kaathe also wants you to gather shards of the Dark Soul, so it would make sense. Kaathe is greedy.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:52 am

    Gyonimizotetsu wrote:That... Seems reasonable. Kaathe also wants you to gather shards of the Dark Soul, so it would make sense. Kaathe is greedy.
    While I certainly appreciate that you find the idea intriguing, I'm thinking that everyone else thinks I've lost it even more then ever. While my threads never get too much attention (What the hell, right?!), Dough at least typically drops a comment or two.

    And so far, you're the first. So either everyone needs some time to think it over, or they think it's absolute lunacy haha.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 am

    Don't spend much time in the archives anymore sad
    However I did see this thread but cant remember why I didnt post. I have a headache now though so I'll hold off on posting till I can think straight.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:35 am

    I just reread my first post here and realized that writing it up while tired was a terrible decision. I started semi-rambling and my attempts at trying to lead thoughts instead of outright stating mine is instead confusing, so I am adding a "TL,DR" to my OP.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:37 am

    Shkar wrote:
    Gyonimizotetsu wrote:That... Seems reasonable. Kaathe also wants you to gather shards of the Dark Soul, so it would make sense. Kaathe is greedy.
    While I certainly appreciate that you find the idea intriguing, I'm thinking that everyone else thinks I've lost it even more then ever. While my threads never get too much attention (What the hell, right?!), Dough at least typically drops a comment or two.

    And so far, you're the first. So either everyone needs some time to think it over, or they think it's absolute lunacy haha.
    Well, I can't think of anything to disprove you. Plus, serpents in Dark Souls are like an incarnation of greed, according to the covetous serpent rings, so it would make sense that they're greedy.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:41 am

    Shkar wrote:I just reread my first post here and realized that writing it up while tired was a terrible decision. I started semi-rambling and my attempts at trying to lead thoughts instead of outright stating mine is instead confusing, so I am adding a "TL,DR" to my OP.
    Made some sense to me


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:43 am

    If the serpents are the heads of the world why are they working against each other?


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:52 am

    It's possible that Kaathe wasn't lying and Frampt is a mentally retarded Primordial Serpent who betrayed the Primordial Serpents. But if you choose the Dark Lord ending, he bows down to you. Maybe Kaathe did something to Frampt and now he's getting his revenge by continuing the Age of Fire?


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:56 am

    DoughGuy wrote:If the serpents are the heads of the world why are they working against each other?

    Working against each other? Sure, typically that's the view. Heck, it is even the likely view. But isn't it possible that they are merely pretending to have different agendas to try to ensure the chosen undead works for them? They have had millenia to study humans; surely they realize that some are good and valorous and some are evil and selfish.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by dancash1808 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:59 am

    Playing both sides. clever. if they are set up as an opposition people tend to assume that one is deceptive rather than both.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:44 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:Playing both sides. clever. if they are set up as an opposition people tend to assume that one is deceptive rather than both.

    And if this theory is true, they aren't even being all THAT deceptive. Sure, they are masking their true intentions under a different mask, but they are still honest about what they want you to do.

    Actually, now that I think about it, what HAPPENS to the lord souls if this theory isn't true? You use them to open the door and...then what? Isn't the whole reason the flame is "dying" is because the lord souls were removed? So, wouldn't re-adding them theoretically re-start the flame?


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:58 am

    I like it! Something you might not been aware of is....(and yes it's from wikipedia... and I found it during one of my analysis series....) Take a look at the Caduceus Kite Shield picture.. then look up Caduceus in Wikipedia (links below)... Think of my Primordial Soup theory, coupled with you're soul of the world/serpents are the heads of it theory and read this very interesting section.... "Ancient Near East" It mentions Ningishzida which it says is the "messenger" of the "Earth Mother" and the god of the underworld. Click on Ningishzida and it gets even more interesting... In Sumerian his name translates to... "Lord of the good Tree" he was also depicted as.... "a serpent with a human face"...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Ashran on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:37 am

    Uhm I dont like this theory. I like the "biblical" theory. The intro is just too well explained. That isnt history. That isnt legend. Thats just some kind of old lore, a way of explaining some unexplainable events. The Lords Souls are just some parts of the old power that shattered the Eternal Dragons world, which btw still exists but just veeery deep underground. The Great Firelink Sanctuary was created to use that power against the dragons, but once they falled, the greed just overwhelmed some souls.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:47 am

    Ashran wrote:Uhm I dont like this theory. I like the "biblical" theory. The intro is just too well explained. That isnt history. That isnt legend. Thats just some kind of old lore, a way of explaining some unexplainable events. The Lords Souls are just some parts of the old power that shattered the Eternal Dragons world, which btw still exists but just veeery deep underground. The Great Firelink Sanctuary was created to use that power against the dragons, but once they falled, the greed just overwhelmed some souls.

    If you throw out the meaning of the introduction and refuse to allow speculation on it, you cut out the vast majority of the backstory of the game. After all, it IS the only place that even mentions the "rebellion" against the dragons. Hell, there's no significance to the flame if the intro is ignored.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Ashran on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:16 am

    Well i dont ignore it. I interpretate it. The "flame" might be just the rise of mankind and their fight to the dragons, the elder race. And sorry for trowing your theory xD i just posted mine without commenting yours.

    I think your theory is very legit, but... How can i say it... I like it. But i like mine more. I mean, your theory is very complete, so the only way i can be against you is with another completely different theory.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:39 am

    Ashran wrote:Well i dont ignore it. I interpretate it. The "flame" might be just the rise of mankind and their fight to the dragons, the elder race. And sorry for trowing your theory xD i just posted mine without commenting yours.

    I think your theory is very legit, but... How can i say it... I like it. But i like mine more. I mean, your theory is very complete, so the only way i can be against you is with another completely different theory.

    I am by no means saying you have to prescribe to my theory. Hell, I by no means think some of the most popular theories are right. I've even come to reject some of my older theories. If I tried to force my theories on other people, I'd be hated here instead of feared like the madman I am.

    And while the majority of the lore community here takes the intro fairly religiously (pun intended), you are still free to interpret the lore your own way. The whole point of leaving the lore open ended seems to have been for that exact reason.


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    Re: New take on Dark Sign "intent"

    Post by Ashran on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:28 pm

    Shkar wrote:

    I am by no means saying you have to prescribe to my theory. Hell, I by no means think some of the most popular theories are right. I've even come to reject some of my older theories. If I tried to force my theories on other people, I'd be hated here instead of feared like the madman I am.

    And while the majority of the lore community here takes the intro fairly religiously (pun intended), you are still free to interpret the lore your own way. The whole point of leaving the lore open ended seems to have been for that exact reason.

    +1 dude. I like the way you think :Baal02:


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