Are bonfires returning?

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    Gyonimizotetsu
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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:53 pm

    Well why would a new player be playing DkS II? They should be playing DkS I. When they get better, they can come back to DkS II.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:50 am

    I think if the dark hand worked better and maybe there were a way to use humanity to "un-kindle" a person's bonfire I'd be happy. They could keep that hidden so the host would expect 20 estus and see 5 twisted


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by passivefamiliar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:20 pm

    hey its andres wrote:I think if the dark hand worked better and maybe there were a way to use humanity to "un-kindle" a person's bonfire I'd be happy. They could keep that hidden so the host would expect 20 estus and see 5 twisted

    Being able to wipe out someones fire would be awesome, but i do see the dreadfulness of it. This idea, that you could perhaps use a dark hand sort of item if not even a dark hand to drain a bonfire of its power, and they would still receive a orb to invade you back. Only once though, or 3 or something. Not unlimited at least. That would be great, it wouldn't disable a person completely but would still be a heck of a crutch.


    On topic more. Im not sure i want bonfires back as much. I like the idea of something new again. Bonfires were awesome at first, but the fire doesn't burn so bright anymore for me. And with a new person running the show, it would be good for him to try something new. Risky, but rewarding if he does well. And then if he does well it will be his doing, not a rehashed idea.

    A nexus wouldn't work either, thats the world of boletaria. Which, off topic. I want a demons sequel/prequel.



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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by hageshisa on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:37 pm

    Ok, so when I had a hard time with DkS I just should have played Demon's Souls first? I don't really agree to that logic. A sequal is not ment for only the existing fanbase


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:50 pm

    I've actually never touched Demon Soul's myself (watched others play it), and yet I consider Dark Souls to be my favorite game of all time. I'm sure I would've loved Demon Souls and maybe one day I will play it, but for now I have only Dark Souls which is not a bad thing by all means. I guess what I'm getting at is that we should not discourage people from playing the game. Sure we can be competitive in our attempts to botch their plans to complete a quest, but we should never discourage people from playing the game and joining the community.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Murkulanvippi on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:49 am

    This might sound stupid but what if bonfires are replaced with something else? Idea of resting would be the same as with bonfires. In the trailer we see the main character sitting in the pale moonlight while leanin to his sword. Looks to me like he is resting. What do u think about that? Maybe just my illusion...


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 pm

    Murkulanvippi wrote:This might sound stupid but what if bonfires are replaced with something else? Idea of resting would be the same as with bonfires. In the trailer we see the main character sitting in the pale moonlight while leanin to his sword. Looks to me like he is resting. What do u think about that? Maybe just my illusion...

    If the world is indeed post dark souls, then it's a definite possibility that there is no more fire.. Hence in the darkness, the light of the moon could act as a 'safe place', just like the bonfires.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:13 pm

    As I originally theorized (here, here and here), it's been confirmed that DkS2 is not a direct sequel or prequel to DkS. It seems the events in DkS2 occur far away from but in tandem with the events in the original.

    My theory is no, I don't think we will see bonfires in DkS2. There are a couple of shots in the trailer where the presence of a bonfire is notably absent; one that comes to mind is the hero kneeling and resting his head on the hilt of his sword. There is a distinct lack of light from a fire in the shot. I point it out in my trailer analysis vid.

    The developers have confirmed that time will play a significant role in the game. I speculate that respawning after death will be a method of rewinding time to certain checkpoints along the way. I speculate even further that the feather is an instrument of time manipulation and the notable "bird sanctuaries" we see throughout the trailer are the checkpoints.

    Rampant speculation, yes, but I don't have a terrible record.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:58 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:As I originally theorized (here, here and here),The developers have confirmed that time will play a significant role in the game. I speculate that respawning after death will be a method of rewinding time to certain checkpoints along the way.

    I think you may be right on the money.
    Thats "IMO" the best speculation of what might happen with the next checkpoint system if it isn't bonfires. Im not so sure about the feather being an instrument of time travel, but its not a bad theory.
    I think From can do better than a time traveling feather as the way to traverse through time, but who knows. I would like to see some clever way of implementing that mechanic. But will just have to wait and see.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Acarnatia on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:12 pm

    ... come to think of it, this is seeming more and more like a similar scenario when Zelda transfered creators from Ocarina of Time to Majora's Mask. Majora's Mask had a new director. Majora's Mask is to date considered the darkest Zelda game. Majora's Mask used bird statues as warp points, in addition to the magical talking owl they resembled being among the few characters who had any inkling that you can travel through time. I think I'm seeing a pattern in Japanese culture.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:17 pm

    Well just because it occurs in a different part of the world doesn't mean events aren't related. Have you guys heard of the "South Pole, North Pole" quote? They said it's not a DIRECT sequel, but this does not mean it is not a spiritual sequel. Also it seems that the director and Miyazaki have hinted that it does take place after Dark Souls.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:23 pm

    I found Majora's Mask to have the greatest story to it and it is quite possibly my favorite Zelda game to date. If Dark Souls goes through a similar transition I will be very happy.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:46 pm

    hey its andres wrote:Well just because it occurs in a different part of the world doesn't mean events aren't related. Have you guys heard of the "South Pole, North Pole" quote? They said it's not a DIRECT sequel, but this does not mean it is not a spiritual sequel. Also it seems that the director and Miyazaki have hinted that it does take place after Dark Souls.
    What I think he meant was, that Dark Souls II is going to take place in the same world as Dark Souls, but not in Lordran. It's not a direct sequel because you are far away from Lordran, and the character is new. So it is a sequel, just not a direct sequel. And it's not a spiritual successor.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:47 pm

    AND WHY YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT ZELDA


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by FattyOfDoom on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:16 pm

    Why not?


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:22 pm

    hey its andres wrote:Well just because it occurs in a different part of the world doesn't mean events aren't related. Have you guys heard of the "South Pole, North Pole" quote? They said it's not a DIRECT sequel, but this does not mean it is not a spiritual sequel. Also it seems that the director and Miyazaki have hinted that it does take place after Dark Souls.

    Well if it's only a spritual sequel it'll be just like the difference between demons and dark.. totally other worlds..

    I think it's a direct sequel.. or maybe a prequel? Considering the time distortion lore that they whacked in to make sense of all the parallel worlds nothing would surprise me at this stage, pretty much anything could be kosh


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:44 pm

    4Gamer Interview:

    4Gamer:
    I’d like to talk more about Dark Souls II. Is there any connection to the original in terms of the feel of the world?

    Shibuya:
    It’s not a sequel in terms of story, but that doesn’t mean the feel of the world is completely different. The game is set in the same world as the previous title, but the story takes place in a different location and with different humans (players).

    Dark Souls II is not a sequel to Dark Souls.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505206


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:53 pm

    But since it is set in the same world, it has to be distantly related. I'm guessing you might hear "Hey, Great Lord Gwyn just *** died. Yeah, seriously man! Some naked guy with a club and crap shield just kicked his ***!" somewhere in the story.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:26 pm

    Updated the wiki with the interview. I figured everyone had already read it.

    And yeah, Gyon, subtle nods would be pretty sweet.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:07 pm

    Like I said in another thread, I think that souls is gonna make its sequels on th elder scrolls model. Same world, but different regions and hundreds of years apart. They're trying to establish it as a AAA title


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Gyonimizotetsu on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:17 pm

    But Elder Scrolls will never be as hard, dark, soul crushing, or depressing as Dark Souls. They're two separate types of video games, in my opinion. Yeah, they're RPG's, but they're just too different to compare.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:40 pm

    Gyonimizotetsu wrote:But Elder Scrolls will never be as hard, dark, soul crushing, or depressing as Dark Souls. They're two separate types of video games, in my opinion. Yeah, they're RPG's, but they're just too different to compare.

    No. In fact, they're easy to compare. A narrative is a narrative; there are certain universal truths for telling a story.
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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:14 pm

    Yes, there are certain archetypes that are used in both. The souls series uses and focuses on different story archetypes, though. The Hero's Journey isn't the only basic story template, and there are significantly varying versions of even the Hero's Journey. The stories of the Souls games and the stories of the Elder Scrolls games are quite different.


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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:35 am

    Acarnatia wrote:Yes, there are certain archetypes that are used in both. The souls series uses and focuses on different story archetypes, though. The Hero's Journey isn't the only basic story template, and there are significantly varying versions of even the Hero's Journey. The stories of the Souls games and the stories of the Elder Scrolls games are quite different.

    Archetypes? Hero's journey? Nobody brought that up.

    It is by definition difficult to make a sequel to a stand-alone story. This difficulty is compounded if the conclusion is open-ended, and compounded exponentially if you plan on franchising. True for everything. Literally. Every. Thing.
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    Re: Are bonfires returning?

    Post by Shkar on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:01 am

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Acarnatia wrote:Yes, there are certain archetypes that are used in both. The souls series uses and focuses on different story archetypes, though. The Hero's Journey isn't the only basic story template, and there are significantly varying versions of even the Hero's Journey. The stories of the Souls games and the stories of the Elder Scrolls games are quite different.

    Archetypes? Hero's journey? Nobody brought that up.

    It is by definition difficult to make a sequel to a stand-alone story. This difficulty is compounded if the conclusion is open-ended, and compounded exponentially if you plan on franchising. True for everything. Literally. Every. Thing.

    They have already said the story isn't exactly a "sequel." It takes place in the same world, but at a different time and place and with different characters. It's more likely a simultaneous story.


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