Does it get any better?

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    sure-magicians
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    Does it get any better?

    Post by sure-magicians on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:22 pm

    I thought getting the platinum trophy was painfully hard at times but since I have ventured in the online part of this game it has opened up a whole new level of frustration for me.

    All I am looking for is a normal fight, (I wanted to type 'fair' at first but normal seems a better word) now I have compared my 'normal' to what the internet and these boards consider normal and so far only 2-3 out of 10 invasions are like that.

    What are the other 8 like? Well it's mostly guys (or girls who knows) using all the cheap tactics to win, and top it all off with that horrible 'what is it' gesture.
    Don't tell me to get over it because I don't want to get over it, I want to get even without resorting to the same tactics.

    Now on one hand it seems logical to use all means the game provides (TWoP/WotG and those horrible dark orb thingys) to get the job done but on the other hand, I don't know it seems kinda cheap.
    Even unfair at times.
    But I think unsportsmanlike is a better word for it, looking back I'm glad I played through the game offline the first times because otherwise it would be been a lot harder to progress.

    Where is this going?
    Now with enough time and effort invested, will it at some point be possible to come out on top every now and then?
    Is it just a matter of experience or am I missing something here?

    I certainly don't mind losing, hell I'm satisfied if an invader bows before and after the fight, but just as I have managed to almost win a fight, without using Estus, feeling good about myself, the next guy comes along, bows and as I return the courtesy I get hit with the TWoP, backstabbed and some dark orbs I cannot seem to evade.

    Now if you read my post/rant so far, thank you for that, and maybe you can help me and hand out some advice, or tips even or an opinion.
    Anything so it does not seem a lost cause when I turn on my ps3 and get my *** handed to me in every which way possible...

    I already met a very helpful guy here (thank you PekuFin!) and from browsing these boards I'm guessing there must be more people around who would be willing to help me out here and share their views...


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    Sentiel
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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:33 pm

    I've faced the same problem as you do and I think lot fo people here did at some point.

    I was frustrated over this, especially backstabs and Ring of Fog users, which were a menace for new players.

    I've read some tips, watched a few videos of how others deal with it and tried using the methods and tactics, that killed me on others, to see their responses and countermeasures for them and learned from it all.

    You only mentioned TWoP, WoG and Dark Bead.

    TWoP has very limited time of effect, of 10 seconds and it just makes you being unable to move. Depending on your character, this may not be a problem at all. Str characters can just go trade hits, Dex characters usually have Pyromancy, so they can use that and other, Int and Faith, should be able to cast spells, to counter TWoP.

    Both WoG and Dark bead are easy to evade and punish, it only requires some experience, really. You can also block them with a Crest Shield. It will still damage you, but the damage will be much lower. However, there are players, who can use these attacks through your shield, completely ignoring it, so it's safer to evade.

    It gets better, or worse, depending on your location. Most "fair" fights happen in Undead Burg and Moonlight Butterfly area of Darkroot Garden.

    Anywhere else, it's more like anything goes, especially Forest (Great Grey Wolf Sif area od Darkroot Garden) where it's no rules and all cheap goes 24/7.

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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by Glutebrah on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:38 pm

    the people that use "cheap" tactics are annoying at best, but as long as lag is good once you get rolling down you will learn to just roll through them. with practice will come wins, and when you win with out using those tactics it is a better feeling of accomplishment.

    DO NOT try and block WoG like the poster above me said, 8/10 times my opponent tries to Dead angle it (faces away from you) you can not block those, just get good at rolling.


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:45 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:the people that use "cheap" tactics are annoying at best, but as long as lag is good once you get rolling down you will learn to just roll through them. with practice will come wins, and when you win with out using those tactics it is a better feeling of accomplishment.

    DO NOT try and block WoG like the poster above me said, 8/10 times my opponent tries to Dead angle it (faces away from you) you can not block those, just get good at rolling.
    8/10? People are getting good, huh?
    Most people I meet just use it as a wake up attack, or simply spam it. I got more like 4/10 instead of 8/10.

    Well, it just shows how unpredictable this game can get.

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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by sure-magicians on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:00 pm

    Sentiel wrote:You only mentioned TWoP, WoG and Dark Bead.

    I only mentioned those because these 3 did me in last few times.
    Last invader was at the second bonfire after Firelink, he was waving at me from where the crossbow enemy stands and as I was rushing towards him he hit me with magic as I was climbing the stairs,and hit me again as I was retreating from the very same stairs...

    The one before that WotG'ed me too death, I was amazed at how fast I could die actually...

    And I have tried the Crest shield, and any other piece of gear I could find but it seems I always have the wrong shield equipped.




    Glutebrah wrote:the people that use "cheap" tactics are annoying at best, but as long as lag is good once you get rolling down you will learn to just roll through them. with practice will come wins, and when you win with out using those tactics it is a better feeling of accomplishment.

    That is my aim, and thank you both for your replies!


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by reim0027 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:55 pm

    It does get better. About the gestures, they don't bother me anymore. The turning point for me was in the Forest. I was ganked and slaughtered. The hosts and his phantoms were all wearing the Child's Mask and did the "What is it" gesture. It was so fitting that I actually laughed out loud. Now, every time I see a gesture like that, I remember the gankers in their child's mask.


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by sure-magicians on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:47 am

    Yeah well I suppose it's better to laugh about it, and I've had a couple of 'good' invasions today actually so it's not all bad.

    I am thinking about killing Oswald though, to get rid of my unresolved anger emotions since that is where 'that gesture' originates......................... j/k Well What is it


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by raecor14 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:55 am

    if you can put up with a massive wait DRAGONBROS get nice clean fights


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:57 am

    What sort of builds do you prefer using? For quicker (fast-rolling) Dex builds WotG is actually pretty easy to avoid once you get the timing down. You can even aim your dodge roll to position yourself for a backstab to punish WotG spammers, if you are so inclined. If you are a tanking strength sort of character, Havel's Greatshield and the Stone Greatshield laugh at all forms of magic. Just be aware though that people can dead angle with WoTG through your shield. If you see them turning their back to you to cast it, this is what they are trying to do. To block a dead angled WoTG just turn away from your opponent to face the opposite direction and raise your shield.

    The same, more or less applies to Dark Bead but as others said it's better to try and dodge this when possible.

    For TWoP casters, if you can't outrun the AoE, keep an AoE spell such as Fire Tempest or a special attack weapon such as the Dragon King Greataxe handy and just spam the Aoe until the TWoP field wears off. This either damages them or stops them coming to close until TWoP wears off. You could also try parrying since most will just mash R1/spam WoTG after using TWoP, or you could even trade blows if you have high poise.

    For backstab fishers, look up the tutorials on Youtube on how to Pivot Backstab. You can also kick your opponent as they are parallel to you. This usually interrupts them, or cancels the damage you take from a backstab. A fast, swinging weapon (such as the Falchion/Gold Tracer) will also have this effect.

    It will get better as you get more experience in PvP though. In time, you'll most likely have your own personal counters for everything. You'll eventually be able to get a pretty accurate profile of the type of player (not just the build) you are about to fight just be looking at what they have equipped and by watching them, even for a few seconds, you'll know if they are trying to backstab fish/spam spells etc and you can then adjust your tactics accordingly. A couple of tips though.

    Host rather than invade - This way you won't get ganked and your opponent is less likely to heal.

    Only bow if they bow first, or you are far enough away.

    PvP using the Dragon Eye Stone, as players with another phantom present can't summon you through it.

    Avoid Darkroot Garden and Oolacile Township.

    Don't use spears - Perhaps a strange one, but I usually find people use cheaper tactics whenever I'm using a spear.

    I am thinking about killing Oswald though, to get rid of my unresolved anger emotions since that is where 'that gesture' originates
    Hehe silly


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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by sure-magicians on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:26 am

    Hey thanks for the tips, it's appreciated!

    The builds I used at first were all coming from my PvE experience, non focused, high vitality and strength mostly.
    Greatshield of Artorias with some kind of halberd with mid-roll.

    This got me killed real fast most of the time, but after I googled my way
    here and found the 2 character build topics I started to make characters with a bit more sense...

    I copied several builds outlined in roanispe' An Introduction to Dark Souls PvP v0.7' thread and use my over leveled character mostly to test out new equipment and weapons.

    And yeah I tried Darkroot Garden and Forest but the fights I get there are not what I'm looking for, I tried getting summoned for the boss fight there but almost every time someone summons me there is for one of those 3v1 fights so I avoid that area now...

    At the moment I am leaving several bosses alive and wait for an invader in areas where I can quickly dispose of enemies present, I do lose mostly but every now and then I get close to killing one, which makes me feel rather good about myself so I reverse hollowing and go again.





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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:58 am

    I had a lot of trouble breaking into the PVP part of the game. Victories were far and few. What helped me was keeping my charater low level, around 25 to 30. This limited what I could do, but it also limited my foes as well. This way I could learn how to fight against the limited spells and builds available and not try to figure it all out at once. In fact everytime I fought a build, I would try to figure out what stats were needed for it to work and thereby understand where the weakness might be.

    Also it helps to fight in areas you are comfortable in and to invade in those areas to get an idea of where the invader spawns in. Invading helped me a lot, because I quickly found out what others did to handle invaders... ambushes, tactics, etc. I'm not saying you should use them if you find them cheap, but it does help to understand what the invaders are having to deal with when they invade you.

    Just remember... 9 times out of 10 the invader is lower level then you. Which means in a straight up fight you have the advantage. So always be looking out for pyromancy, which is the great equalizer at low level. Learn to use it and avoid it.
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    Re: Does it get any better?

    Post by sure-magicians on Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:07 pm

    Kirk-Barb wrote:Also it helps to fight in areas you are comfortable in and to invade in those areas to get an idea of where the invader spawns in. Invading helped me a lot, because I quickly found out what others did to handle invaders... ambushes, tactics, etc. I'm not saying you should use them if you find them cheap, but it does help to understand what the invaders are having to deal with when they invade you.

    I'm going to try this, so thank you for the advice!


    Kirk-Barb wrote:So always be looking out for pyromancy, which is the great equalizer at low level. Learn to use it and avoid it.

    Just fought off an invader and actually won, he firestormed me in the bonfire room in the depths but I managed to roll out of that and torched him with great combustion...
    Not a great fight but hey, I won for a change.


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