It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Share
    avatar
    Shkar
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2657
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-18

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:15 am

    Slarg232 wrote:High Risk, High Reward type ring:

    Plague Bearer Ring: The wearer of this ring causes Toxin 250 (20 Hp/S, 30 seconds) within a (TwoP) area, but cannot roll (You stumble as though at 51%).

    Nito?

    Doesn't sound too unbalanced to me, although I can't imagine many people taking it unless they make it so dodging isn't vastly superior to blocking. After all, there was a reason TWoP was so reviled.


    _________________
    XBL GT: DeadlyHeretic
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:21 am

    Slarg232 wrote:High Risk, High Reward type ring:

    Plague Bearer Ring: The wearer of this ring causes Toxin 250 (20 Hp/S, 30 seconds) within a (TwoP) area, but cannot roll (You stumble as though at 51%).

    Nito?

    That sounds like it would be a better spell than ring. You can't just have permanent AOE stuff as rings. And I have fought enough turtles to know this ring is a terrible I idea. No offense or anything...


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:27 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Slarg232 wrote:High Risk, High Reward type ring:

    Plague Bearer Ring: The wearer of this ring causes Toxin 250 (20 Hp/S, 30 seconds) within a (TwoP) area, but cannot roll (You stumble as though at 51%).

    Nito?

    That sounds like it would be a better spell than ring. You can't just have permanent AOE stuff as rings. And I have fought enough turtles to know this ring is a terrible I idea. No offense or anything...

    They can't dodge, meaning any sort of spell will pretty much auto hit them, and even with a giant sheild they will die to a high stamina drain weapon.


    _________________


    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:28 am

    I was thinking more along the lines of Havels. Ring are self buffs, they shouldn't effect your opponent.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:29 am

    Why not?


    _________________


    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:37 am

    Because you're wearing the Ring, not them. Lorewise it would have to be pretty damn powerful ring, for you constantly release a miasma of death.

    Just create a permanent WOG ring why don't you?


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:Because you're wearing the Ring, not them. Lorewise it would have to be pretty damn powerful ring, for you constantly release a miasma of death.

    Just create a permanent WOG ring why don't you?

    You're right, because you couldn't possibly make it a Boss Ring forged out of the Soul of Nito. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it couldn't be.


    _________________


    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:45 am

    Such a ring would allow you to win without doing anything. It would be completely broken and centralizing. Every build would have to be created with stopping this ring in mind. Turtles are arguably already the strongest builds, this ring would take it up to 11.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:12 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:Such a ring would allow you to win without doing anything. It would be completely broken and centralizing. Every build would have to be created with stopping this ring in mind. Turtles are arguably already the strongest builds, this ring would take it up to 11.

    People have to build with buffs in mind, people have to build with DWGR in mind. I don't see the problem that wise.

    And it was just an example in the first place, no need to jump all over it like that silly


    _________________


    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:52 am

    Just an example? Are you telling me that that ring wasn't a serious suggestion then?

    Give me an example of people building with countering buffs in mind, how do you build to counter DWGR exactly? How would I build to counter this ring of yours? I can't get near you for too long without getting toxified. If I can't get near you then I can't attack. If I do get near you, then all you have to do is avoid me once the the toxin takes effect and you will win. A Melee build would be completely helpless to it. No build should be rendered useless because of a ring, it's the same reason the Vow Of Silence ring mentioned earlier is broken. Casters would only fair slightly better. Believe me Havels shield can take quite a lot of punishment. Most spell buffs have a time limit. This ring would be in effect until you took it off, and would therefore have no time limit.

    All you did was come up with a spell, and then turned into a ring so that it lasts indefinitely. How is it any better than a WOG Ring, Vow of Silence Ring, Sunlight Blade Ring, or Karmic Justice Ring(I actually like this one but it would still be broken)?

    If you still can't see how such a ring would be broken, then I can't see how I would be able to convince you otherwise.

    I'm only jumping on it because the fact that you think it would be balanced utterly confounds me.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Saturday-Saint
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 961
    Reputation : 48
    Join date : 2012-12-09
    Age : 25

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:04 am

    I actually like the Plague Bearer Ring, I would put it on my DSGB build and turtle 10x harder than I already do.


    _________________
    Joking aside.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:06 am

    And thus, the Plague Turtle build was born... and all other builds were no more



    Edit: The grammar of this sentence is pissing me off. Would any Grammer Nazis like to correct or help me out here?

    I feel like there should be a comma after "and thus" however I used the ellipse as a pause or comma(which might be wrong, but I feel it makes things more dramatic silly )

    The full sentence would therefore look like this:
    And thus, the Plague Turtle build was born, and all other builds were no more.

    That looks completely wrong to me.

    First of all, it makes "the Plague Turtle build was born" look like an independent clause when it's not.

    Also, the two "and"s make me uncomfortable for some reason.

    So what would be the correct way of phrasing/structuring it or w/e it's called.

    Is this fine:
    And thus, the Plague Turtle build was born and all other builds were no more.

    If so, can I use ellipses to add a pause? Which would make the original sentence correct, and therefore mean that I'm tripping out over nothing.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Shkar
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2657
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-18

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:53 am

    I love how your edit about grammar is roughly 10 times as long as your original post.


    _________________
    XBL GT: DeadlyHeretic
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:57 am

    It's that damn OCD I tells ye. Same thing that forced me to kill that stupid female ghost 100 times, just so I could get that useless Ghost Blade :|


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Shkar
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2657
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-18

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:41 am

    Here's a new ring idea:

    I want one that when you wear it, you turn completely invisible, the world turns into a gray-ish fog, and you are glared at by a giant, fiery eye.


    _________________
    XBL GT: DeadlyHeretic
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:43 am

    I was never a fan so I never read the books or watched the movies, but is that a LoTR reference? lol


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Saturday-Saint
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 961
    Reputation : 48
    Join date : 2012-12-09
    Age : 25

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:45 am

    You know I just took a closer look at that plague ring, and something is off. "Toxin 250(20 Hp/s 30 s)

    That's not how poison/toxin numbers work. It would be like Toxin 300, which does 300 damage per minute, or 5 damage per second, for ten minutes. Poison would be like Poison 180, which does 180 damage a minute, or 3 damage per second, for three minutes. These conditions have set amounts of time that they last, and the auxiliary number is always the amount of damage done per minute.

    I think that Toxin 300 is a fair number, inflicts ~9 to 11 build-up per second, which means it'll take something like 10 seconds to infect your typical PvP'er, though this would vary a fair amount due to some armors having stupid poison resist.

    Yeah it's 3,000 damage, but you can cure it, and if the guy's turtling, that's easy. And it takes ten minutes anyways. In a typical duel, it's going to be like 150 to 300 damage, assuming fairly long duels (Let's say 2 or 3 minutes) where the guy is cleansing out when he get's opportunities. Compare this to Hornet Ring, which gives that much per backstab. Bellowing Dragon Crest gives more than that on a single spell. Hell, Lingering Dragon Crest gives you that much damage assuming you land ONE attack between 61 and 90 seconds after you cast a buff.


    _________________
    Joking aside.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 am

    Any good poison user will backstab you while you cure, and in the time it takes you to get back up your meter will probably have gone all the way back up(it does go up during invincibility frames right?). After which the player can go back to turtling until you go to cure yourself again.

    Now that's how you waste someones time.

    There's always dead angles... but they've always been a bit sketchy to me. That and they usually look like I could get BS'd real easily (don't know why I almost never do though)



    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Shkar
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2657
    Reputation : 101
    Join date : 2012-03-18

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:55 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:Any good poison user will backstab you while you cure, and in the time it takes you to get back up your meter will probably have gone all the way back up(it does go up during invincibility frames right?). After which the player can go back to turtling until you go to cure yourself again.

    Now that's how you waste someones time.

    There's always dead angles... but they've always been a bit sketchy to me. That and they usually look like I could get BS'd real easily (don't know why I almost never do though)


    The issue is that the ring is too strong for tanks, but it won't be possible to run at decent speeds in heavy armor easily if this thread is the type of thing they go off of. So, run off for a few seconds before you do the cleanse. Hell, the whole reason I started using DWGR is because everyone just outran me for a few seconds to flask.


    _________________
    XBL GT: DeadlyHeretic
    avatar
    raecor14
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1080
    Reputation : 37
    Join date : 2012-06-21
    Age : 21
    Location : Australia

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by raecor14 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:48 am

    i want elemental weapons to become piss weak, and a ring that makes them have as much viability as normal weapons big grin


    _________________
    #Edon'tbanme
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:41 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:Just an example? Are you telling me that that ring wasn't a serious suggestion then?

    Give me an example of people building with countering buffs in mind, how do you build to counter DWGR exactly? How would I build to counter this ring of yours? I can't get near you for too long without getting toxified. If I can't get near you then I can't attack. If I do get near you, then all you have to do is avoid me once the the toxin takes effect and you will win. A Melee build would be completely helpless to it. No build should be rendered useless because of a ring, it's the same reason the Vow Of Silence ring mentioned earlier is broken. Casters would only fair slightly better. Believe me Havels shield can take quite a lot of punishment. Most spell buffs have a time limit. This ring would be in effect until you took it off, and would therefore have no time limit.

    All you did was come up with a spell, and then turned into a ring so that it lasts indefinitely. How is it any better than a WOG Ring, Vow of Silence Ring, Sunlight Blade Ring, or Karmic Justice Ring(I actually like this one but it would still be broken)?

    If you still can't see how such a ring would be broken, then I can't see how I would be able to convince you otherwise.

    I'm only jumping on it because the fact that you think it would be balanced utterly confounds me.

    DWGR? TWoP
    Buffs? Get Magic Resist
    Plague Bearer Ring? I don't know, Poisonbite Ring, Gargoyle Helm, Bloodsheild, pre-toxicing yourself, Toxicing THEM so they can't chase you and take damage.

    So go ahead and be like debby downer just because you can't see how to counter something. Throw some poop on yourself, run in, throw some poop on them, and now it's the same fight except on a timer.....


    _________________


    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:I was never a fan so I never read the books or watched the movies, but is that a LoTR reference? lol

    No, I think it's a reference to the book 'The Hobbit', not sure if you've ever heard of it.


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:33 pm

    Slarg232 wrote:

    DWGR? TWoP
    Buffs? Get Magic Resist
    Plague Bearer Ring? I don't know, Poisonbite Ring, Gargoyle Helm, Bloodsheild, pre-toxicing yourself, Toxicing THEM so they can't chase you and take damage.

    So go ahead and be like debby downer just because you can't see how to counter something. Throw some poop on yourself, run in, throw some poop on them, and now it's the same fight except on a timer.....

    It's not the same, their timer is significantly longer than yours since it'll just fill up again once your's runs out.

    But fine, you want it to be balanced? Make the ring also poison the user. You're not Nito, I'm note sure why you think you'd be immune to such a strong toxin. Your not immune to your own dung pies, are you?

    Serius: it's part of the same series, I know that much.


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 26

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Slarg232 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:34 pm

    Ok, now that's hilarious, because I was JUST logging on to suggest that very thing; Toxic all enemies around you, poison yourself, and you can't roll. Nito?


    _________________


    avatar
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 25
    Location : Between the Dark and Light

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Acarnatia on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:58 pm

    There's a reason Dark Souls only had two means to cause toxic to other players. (undead rapport and Blighttown aside) Toxic/plague is easily game-breaking if it's so available as to have an AoE ring effect. Even with the cost of inflicting it on yourself, it can be broken by min-maxing through certain stats, cheap tactics and curatives, that other players may not be reasonably expected to have with them. Toxic/plague as a whole has been and should remain difficult to inflict and only be an option by using a few select means because it's so dangerous.
    As for why rings shouldn't affect other players directly, that's because by wearing the ring you're basically forcing a condition on another player without having a possible counter unless there is gear specifically aimed at nullifying that, which will force players to use rings that are otherwise useless and force them out of their chosen style. If equipment directly inflict debuffs and status effects or deals damage, especially constantly, it will create a gear-set that will be easily used by tanks to become akin to walking fireballs.; they can just stand their and block/tank everything while they damage others just by being there, and as a ring, they can do that indefinitely. Rings should only affect the player wearing them because they're the only one wearing it. Wearing a ring that affects others is the same logic that states that using a consumable item on yourself should affect others. It's too easy to take advantage of and thus make the game completely unfair.
    As far as being unable to roll-if a power that's being suggested is powerful or min-maxed enough that taking away rolling is being considered as a penalty, then it's probably too strong and will drastically unbalance things. Min-maxing past a certain point, especially in offensive power, is dangerous, and if done poorly, can result in everyone using the exact same glass-cannon build because no others can compete.


    _________________
    I am him who seeks himself;
    Fallen Heaven's malice was I born to bear.
    A phantom-ghost treading upon the mists of Heaven,
    Malevolence or Heaven am I?
    I am the absolute devoted,
    The wraith.

    PSN: Enaid_Waleis (main), Try-chu

    Sponsored content

    Re: It all began with the forging of the Great Rings...

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:59 pm