Why Bother Bowing?

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    Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:12 am

    I understand and have nothing against forest hunters/forest invaders ganking and using all at their disposal to kill me. But what confuses me is why in hell would you bow before ganking? Why after? Why would you spam WoG, gank, TWoP, chain stab with hornets, act like you won't fight and then backstab out of nowhere, and heal after bowing. But the one thing that pisses me off the most is when I get killed by one,some, or all of these mentioned and THEN they bow. I don't care is you taunt, gloat, send me bi*ch messages, etc., but when you bow, in my mind, you've just crossed the line. Why?
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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:23 am

    I've always thought that in their perspective that any cheap tactic goes in the forest. It drove me insane, but maybe it's because they think they can nitpick one of the "rules of honor" and bow before and after but show now respect for the invader when actually ganking.

    It could also just be an insult though, and I still get angry over it too.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:25 am

    I bow after every fight unless it was a gank squad. I'm there to kill you, by whatever means necessary, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't show respect for the effort my opponent put into the fight.

    In fact, if I didn't do everything in my power to win, I was being intentionally disrespectful. By holding back I'm saying you are beneath me and undeserving of a proper response.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:30 am

    One of the biggest problems with me and the forest is that I simply can't play with the style of "anything goes". I like having constant and unrestricted invasions, but the only way I play cheap is healing, and I do that extremely rarely, even when I'm outnumbered or having cheap tactics used against me. I don't want to become what I hate, and I don't want to break my own honor code, even if someone else does. Anyway its good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:32 am

    I think he is talking more a long the lines of when a ganker squad bows to you when your in the forest or got jumped by them at the Burg. Not when some invader invades the game. That just depends on who your fighting when it comes to bowing.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:35 am

    DemonRider909 wrote:One of the biggest problems with me and the forest is that I simply can't play with the style of "anything goes". I like having constant and unrestricted invasions, but the only way I play cheap is healing, and I do that extremely rarely, even when I'm outnumbered or having cheap tactics used against me. I don't want to become what I hate, and I don't want to break my own honor code, even if someone else does. Anyway its good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

    That makes a lot of sense. I used to be like that before joining the Darkstalkers all I can advise you to do is to leave the forest. As unfortunate as it may be things aren't going to change for anyone like you around there. I would advise going to the burg or another place that you are more likely to get legitimate 1v1 fights.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:36 am

    Cheap is a subjective term and thus meaningless. My advice is in my signature. Getting worked up because someone has a different idea of honor or just doesn't have a code will only harm your experience.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:37 am

    @Forum Pirate... There's truth there, but my mentality is one of holding back the frowned upon tactics even under the circumstances of them being used against me. When someone uses everything at their disposal to kill me through skill and not the spamming of spells or uses "cheap" tactics in a manner of timing and skill, I have no problem with them bowing before or after. But these kind of instances almost never occur. Either way, I try to respect other's opinions and playstyles. The problem really lies within the honor code I hold dear to me. It isn't a problem with the way people play, it's really just a problem with me. :|


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by passivefamiliar on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:44 am

    My opinion is that THAT is why we have 2 types of a bow animation. Normal is for the "you gave it your best try, if you wanna win next time fight dirty like me" and proper for the "respect" fights.

    Just a thought.

    But i'm the same page, i think most people here are. If your going to fight "unfair" don't message me gloating. Don't take pride in a win won simply by spamming wrath spells. If you fight me. And you win i'll most likely be messaging you with a GOOD FIGHT titled message. Because i don't mind losing, unless its done in poor taste.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:51 am

    Thats all fine and dandy, but like the knights of france being butchered by english archers, when push comes to shove it will cost you the match.

    If the devs really didn't want the "cheap" tactics to work they probably wouldn't be in game. Glitching is different (dragon head, spell swap) but everything else is fair game.

    If you don't like specific tactics, try a fightclub. There are a bunch and several have rules limiting things considered cheap by the members. There are a few of them here, their threads are stickyed.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:04 am

    Truthfully, I usually enjoy fighting the supposedly "cheap" tactics, especially when they're used skillfully, but i rarely use them myself. Everything is fair game, especially when not playing duels or pre-determined fights, but I just don't do it, and I usually have nothing against it.

    Your signiture says it all Forum.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Solid Knight on Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:51 am

    Be amused by their behavior; no reason to get upset when somebody makes themselves look like a poor sport.
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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Xero on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:51 am

    Switch to the PC. Forest is completely different here.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:44 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I bow after every fight unless it was a gank squad. I'm there to kill you, by whatever means necessary, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't show respect for the effort my opponent put into the fight.

    In fact, if I didn't do everything in my power to win, I was being intentionally disrespectful. By holding back I'm saying you are beneath me and undeserving of a proper response.

    So I am showing disrespect to people everytime I don't use hornets ring and pivot bs them to death??

    Not sure if srs.....


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:53 am

    DemonRider909 wrote:@Forum Pirate... There's truth there, but my mentality is one of holding back the frowned upon tactics even under the circumstances of them being used against me. When someone uses everything at their disposal to kill me through skill and not the spamming of spells or uses "cheap" tactics in a manner of timing and skill, I have no problem with them bowing before or after. But these kind of instances almost never occur. Either way, I try to respect other's opinions and playstyles. The problem really lies within the honor code I hold dear to me. It isn't a problem with the way people play, it's really just a problem with me. :|

    I am the same way, but it has nothing to do with honor for me. The reason I don't use these tactics, is because it's not fun for me to win a mat with only a back stab, or with a certain spam of a spell. Yea I won, but honestly who cares the fight was boring,

    Same reason I am so against using weapon buffs my self, yea I won the match but i only hit you 2-3x. Is that fun? Nope.

    I don't care if the taticts are used against me, i can deal with them.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:24 am

    That is how i feel!
    I never fall back to doing whatever I can to win because I am playing the game to have fun, unless I'm in an especially bad mood. Otherwise, I'm playing the game to have fun, and prolong my fights without healing. I hate for a fight to end quickly and I refrain from backstabs unless it is too tempting.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:30 am

    No matter if I wind up doing something my opponent doesn't like or if my opponent does something that I don't like, I still like to show I am giving them my respect.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:10 pm

    I do the prostration gesture after every fight. Not sure the message it sends, i just think it looks cool.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by RANT on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:31 pm

    i would just not let it get to me specially since you're in the forest where you WILL get ganked but only sometimes, most catbros wont gank and will wait their turn unless of course is a gank their fighting. i would go to the kiln, burg, township or arty's arena if you want constant invasions and a lot less ganks.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:53 pm

    I'm dead serious glute, but its my code. I don't apply it to others.

    I'm not saying you're being disrespectful if you pull punches, I'm saying that when I pull punches I'm being disrespectful. As I don't like being disrespectful, honor demand I pivot bs the crap out of my opponent for as long as it works.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:48 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm dead serious glute, but its my code. I don't apply it to others.

    I'm not saying you're being disrespectful if you pull punches, I'm saying that when I pull punches I'm being disrespectful. As I don't like being disrespectful, honor demand I pivot bs the crap out of my opponent for as long as it works.

    so if you are rolling with a build that doesn't focus on TWOP/ dark bead spam with a hornet ring dark tracer build, i will assume you are being disrespectful to me if we ever duel

    http://mmdks.com/m2t or http://mmdks.com/m2w anything less i might feel like you disrespected me (might be able to make that build more powerful but was just a quick thing i tossed together)


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:18 pm

    Thats in no way a definitive "best" setup. There isn't a definitive best setup, and the group of better setups changes with the sl. (btw these are the setups or variations there of that I use)

    Besides, I wasn't refering to my build choice. all my builds are competitive anyways, thus my choice as far as my build goes has no bearing on my being able to respond properly to any given situation, which is what I strive to do every time all the time both because I like to win and because I must respect my opponents potential to win should I ever fail.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:30 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats in no way a definitive "best" setup. There isn't a definitive best setup, and the group of better setups changes with the sl. (btw these are the setups or variations there of that I use)

    Besides, I wasn't refering to my build choice. all my builds are competitive anyways, thus my choice as far as my build goes has no bearing on my being able to respond properly to any given situation, which is what I strive to do every time all the time both because I like to win and because I must respect my opponents potential to win should I ever fail.

    lol i know what you mean i was just being a smart ***. i agree with what you say to the extent i don't like toying with people,

    (unless the person is a new player trying to complete the level i will do a couple bare handed back stabs and parries then drop him some humanity and kill my self or BC out if there is no ledge, and send him a message trying to explain the best ways to counter and prevent everything i did)

    however i still follow a set of rules because i like to challenge my self and have fun fights, and to me spamming a spell or going for backstabs, buffing weapons isn't fun to me (i enjoy playing against those players, but i don't enjoy doing them my self). only time i will deliberately use pivot backstabs is in 2v1 or 3v1 situations on the phantoms only to try and make it a 1v1 of me and the host.

    if you think i am disrespecting you because i don't roll BS casting attempts instead i just Roll R1 to the side of them, i'm sorry because i don't mean it that way. even if i lose those matches i still feel good because i know if i chose to BS the match would have ended a lot sooner, but it's not about winning to me.


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:53 pm

    I wouldn't assume you were being disrespectful if you held back. Its just my rule. Thats just about the only reason I would ever hold back. (the other 2 are I invaded someone more than 10%+10 sls below me and upon request for teaching purposes)

    Some people don't have fun mualing everybody in 4 seconds with a dmb washing pole (which is almost always what that build does). I can't fualt them for that.

    It does irritate me if I catch that someone is holding back against me, but thats a result of my not being good enough to force them to go all out or lose the fight, so thats on me too.

    (ps, its not about winning for me either, winning is just a validation of the effort I put in. if it was about winning I'd just hack. Its about the struggle to overcome an obstacle [my opponent] and I consider the struggle meaningless if I can afford to do any less than my best, and the struggles of my opponent meaningless if they get any less than my best. Its like beating a guy in a foot race, only to find out he was wearing


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    Re: Why Bother Bowing?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:53 pm

    a 50lb weight vest)


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