The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

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    The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:57 am

    So, i was travelling around on my dragon character and made a very interesting discovery. While hanging out in Ash Lake, I remembered that you really can't go any lower elevation-wise in Dark Souls besides that place. Izalith and maybe the Tomb of Giants may be lower, but judging by their location and the view distance in Ash Lake, I don't think they are.

    I believe that the world that Dark Souls exists in is hollow, an empty core. So that makes me think back to the intro. The intro goes deeper and deeper into the ground, showing humans almost rising out of the ground as they find the fire.

    Could this mean that maybe the first flame, could be the heart of the world, that the souls of lords are the souls of the planet itself? It would explain the power and how they could be considered gods, and even create a story about it within the culture.

    Another thought its that maybe, being Ash Lake seems to be the lowest elevation, the world is not spherical, and maybe it is set up in a sort of layers in some way, and that there isn't an outerspace like area, only dimensional rifts (explaining a possible severance between Demon's and Dark based on dimensional seperation instead of worldly).

    Just something to think about.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by GrinTwist on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:18 am

    From what I can remember the Tomb and Ash Lake aren't at the same elevation the Tomb is actually bit above Ash Lake. Since when you go down into the Tomb and get to the end just before the Pinwheel cave you can clearly see Ash Lake.

    Since there is actually an end to the lake because the two mix I think there might also be a wall of stone that might end Ash Lake that might have Izalith inside of it. So it might be that Izalith and Ash Lake might be at the same level, but it's possible that Izaltih could be even lower underground than Ash Lake.

    Either way it's still a good idea, since the symbolism is somewhat in the right place.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Anchises on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:03 am

    I forget who but someone made a 3d map of the entire game based on game data, and it shows everything in relation to elevation and all. Although to be honest, I think lore and what we actually see in the game is more relevant.

    I agree, I think Ash Lake is the lowest place in the game.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Artoriasflagg on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:15 am

    GrinTwist wrote:From what I can remember the Tomb and Ash Lake aren't at the same elevation the Tomb is actually bit above Ash Lake. Since when you go down into the Tomb and get to the end just before the Pinwheel cave you can clearly see Ash Lake.

    Since there is actually an end to the lake because the two mix I think there might also be a wall of stone that might end Ash Lake that might have Izalith inside of it. So it might be that Izalith and Ash Lake might be at the same level, but it's possible that Izaltih could be even lower underground than Ash Lake.

    Either way it's still a good idea, since the symbolism is somewhat in the right place.
    Never even noticed Ash Lake from the Tomb of the Giants. However, I have absolutely seen Lost Izalith from the lower portions of the tomb, which always led me to believe that it was the lowest level of the world (with the possible exception of the Kiln) but Ash Lake is probably close to or even lower than it. Interestingly, looking at the sky in Izalith reveals that it is just one massive hollow cavern with the city built up under what's essentially a massive dome of earth. I always just assumed Ash Lake was just another massive cavern of that same kind.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Hue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:44 am

    Lore-wise, i don't know, but according to the 3D map viewer, Ask Lake is on the same level as the long branchy slope you slide through to reach the Bed of Chaos.
    The lowest point in TotG, Nito's boss room is on the same level as the second bell of awakening.

    PS: also according to the map viewer, the highest point is where you fight Seath The Scaleless for the first time in his archives.
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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by GrinTwist on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:20 pm

    Artoriasflagg wrote:
    GrinTwist wrote:From what I can remember the Tomb and Ash Lake aren't at the same elevation the Tomb is actually bit above Ash Lake. Since when you go down into the Tomb and get to the end just before the Pinwheel cave you can clearly see Ash Lake.

    Since there is actually an end to the lake because the two mix I think there might also be a wall of stone that might end Ash Lake that might have Izalith inside of it. So it might be that Izalith and Ash Lake might be at the same level, but it's possible that Izaltih could be even lower underground than Ash Lake.

    Either way it's still a good idea, since the symbolism is somewhat in the right place.
    Never even noticed Ash Lake from the Tomb of the Giants. However, I have absolutely seen Lost Izalith from the lower portions of the tomb, which always led me to believe that it was the lowest level of the world (with the possible exception of the Kiln) but Ash Lake is probably close to or even lower than it. Interestingly, looking at the sky in Izalith reveals that it is just one massive hollow cavern with the city built up under what's essentially a massive dome of earth. I always just assumed Ash Lake was just another massive cavern of that same kind.

    It's when you reach that area that you fight Paladin Leeroy. If you keep going forward past the cave you can see trees that look the same as the ones found in the lake. Not to mention a vast pool of water that stretches out towards the Tomb.

    I think though that if the second bell tower is at the same level of Nito's fight that Izalith would definitely be on a lower level than Ash Lake. I'm trying to think of all the elevation that you go through when going to Izalith.

    It would make sense that Izalith would be under Ash Lake though as you did point out that Izalith is really just in a large cavern.

    I have no idea where the Kiln could possibly be located on an elevated level though. I always thought you were just in a completely different place to begin with when you walked through the white passageway.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:57 pm



    The great hollow is blue and is the loswest part of the map. I'm guessing the other blue is the depths, which would make the red part Firelink/Parsh.

    However I don't have the slightest clue about where New londo and TOTG are. They should both connect to firelink so my guess is that they're there but can't be seen on this map.

    Edit: Nevermind. Where you fight the Bed of Chaos is the lowest point. This video shows the complete map.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Hue on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    However I don't have the slightest clue about
    where New londo and TOTG are. They should both connect to firelink so my
    guess is that they're there but can't be seen on this map.
    New Londo
    Catacombs+TotG
    Both
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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Djem on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:50 pm

    Sloth9230 +1 because that's all I can give. Dat map!
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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:40 pm

    Hachouma wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    However I don't have the slightest clue about
    where New londo and TOTG are. They should both connect to firelink so my
    guess is that they're there but can't be seen on this map.
    New Londo
    Catacombs+TotG
    Both

    Why didn't I try and zoom in -__-


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:24 pm

    I’ve mentioned this before in a previous posting but it’s been suggested before that the world is hollow with the big hint being the name “The Great Hollow” before you get to Ash Lake. It’s also been suggested before that the First Flame is the actual Soul of the Planet, to which I researched and came up with the Primordial Soup theory here- http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled. The Darksign could be the planet’s way of returning things to the way they were before the power of the first flame was taken.. either way it’s an interesting theory =O


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:51 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:I’ve mentioned this before in a previous posting but it’s been suggested before that the world is hollow with the big hint being the name “The Great Hollow” before you get to Ash Lake. It’s also been suggested before that the First Flame is the actual Soul of the Planet, to which I researched and came up with the Primordial Soup theory here- http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled. The Darksign could be the planet’s way of returning things to the way they were before the power of the first flame was taken.. either way it’s an interesting theory =O

    I figured it was called the Great Hollow because its one of the great Archtrees and its Hollow lol.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:58 pm

    Chaos Spectre wrote:
    Deathsitexxi wrote:I’ve mentioned this before in a previous posting but it’s been suggested before that the world is hollow with the big hint being the name “The Great Hollow” before you get to Ash Lake. It’s also been suggested before that the First Flame is the actual Soul of the Planet, to which I researched and came up with the Primordial Soup theory here- http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled. The Darksign could be the planet’s way of returning things to the way they were before the power of the first flame was taken.. either way it’s an interesting theory =O

    I figured it was called the Great Hollow because its one of the great Archtrees and its Hollow lol.

    The great Archtrees are a part of the planet (made of stone) and it's not hard to believe that one of these great Archtrees was the biggest and most powerful one. The "great hollow" could have been the Arch-Archtree which held the Soul of the Planet and released the first flame. Note that the Kiln is just the place where Gwyn and his buddies are trying to re-light/empower the First Flame again. If the "great hollow" was the orignal location where the Soul of the Planet/First Flame broke free... that explains why it's called Ash Lake.

    Another thing to note is in the intro, when it talks about the First Flame coming into existence it zooms into what looks like an Archtree (Great Hollow?), which then leads underground (Ash Lake in its original form?).


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:45 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:The great Archtrees are a part of the planet (made of stone) and it's not hard to believe that one of these great Archtrees was the biggest and most powerful one. The "great hollow" could have been the Arch-Archtree which held the Soul of the Planet and released the first flame. Note that the Kiln is just the place where Gwyn and his buddies are trying to re-light/empower the First Flame again. If the "great hollow" was the orignal location where the Soul of the Planet/First Flame broke free... that explains why it's called Ash Lake.

    Another thing to note is in the intro, when it talks about the First Flame coming into existence it zooms into what looks like an Archtree (Great Hollow?), which then leads underground (Ash Lake in its original form?).

    In that case, it makes me wonder, was the dragon left there alive on accident, or was it left there alive out of pity or some other alterior motive.


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    Re: The World is Hollow: A Discovery in Ash Lake

    Post by Artoriasflagg on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:41 am

    That dragon is little more than a whelp when we find it, it likely escaped the slaughter because of how young and unnoticeable it was at that point in time.


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