Crappy bow

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    theznake
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    Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:39 pm

    I have a Black bow of Pharis upgraded via the normal path (+15) and i think its pretty useful. Nevertheless, i wanted to try a chaos long bow, since its damage is supposed to scale with humanity. Well, i did it, i must say that the red titanite slab was a complete waste. The numbers "lie". The chaos bow shows some awesome statistics when used with fire arrows plus the needed humanity, but at the tryouts it was simply overpowered by the Pharis bow.

    I dont understand yet why did this happened, anyone care to explain?

    Thanks


    Last edited by theznake on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:45 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : More info added)


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:41 pm

    Any +15 weapon with the appropriate stats will generally out perform a elemental weapon due to how the damage is calculated. Because the elemental damage is split into 2 smaller ARs while the +15 has one bigger AR it does more damage. This is due to the increasing returns on damage, which makes a higher AR do exponentially more damage.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:50 pm

    mmm...i see, so due to the dex modifier on Phariss bow its stronger, been the ONLY modifier that affects the damage.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Hue on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:41 pm

    theznake wrote:mmm...i see, so due to the dex modifier on Phariss bow its stronger, been the ONLY modifier that affects the damage.
    No, it has nothing to do with the scaling (not in this particular case), even if the base damage+dex bonus in the +15 black bow of pharis is the same as the base damage+fire damage of the chaos longbow.

    The game caclulates defense by substracting a certain value from the damage output.

    If you deal purely physical/magic/fire/lighning damage, the game will substract the said value from the damage output.
    But the problem is that it handles each type of damage separately, it means that if you use a weapon that deals two types of damage, it will substract the defense value once for each type of damage, and that's twice, compared to once for weapons that deal pure damage.
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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:44 pm

    So, it'd be better to use pure damage weaponry under most circumstances?


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Hue on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:33 am

    If you have decent stats, yes.
    Have you tried using fire arrows with your chaos longbow?
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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:25 pm

    Yes, and it sucks still...nevertheless, i'll test in several cases, who knows, maybe there's a case in which that bow may come in handy.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by lovely_shonen on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:17 am

    How much dex you have?

    I use that bow, but ascended to the lightining, works a lot!



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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:51 am

    I don't think there's many creatures (I can't actually think of one) that would be so weak to fire that the chaos version is going to be a great option. Keep the fire arrows though. They can be handy. For instance, I dislike Creature A and also would like a sandwich. Creature A is susceptible to poison damage.

    Step 1: Equip Hawk Ring

    Step 2: Position yourself way outside aggro range

    Step 3: Shoot at creature with bow from outside aggro range
    Step 3a: For those with good eyesight use standard arrows to home in on Creature A until you can see it hit (usually an impact animation or bloodspray)
    Step 3b: For those with poor eyesight, use Fire arrows as they are easier to "trace"

    Step 4: Once properly sighted in, use poison arrows to inflict poison

    Step 5: Get sandwich


    You may be asking yourself, why not just start with poison arrows? They're expensive and more importantly VALUABLE. At least in the above scenario. Yes I know fire arrows are just as expensive but they don't have VALUE. So if you're short on souls just sight in with standard arrows. Also, if you're not in a snack mood you can just equip feather arrows and you'll be able to headshot things from pretty dang far away with no repercussions, making a much faster kill.

    Conclusion: Fire + Bow = Meh

    But don't feel bad I turned my first ever long bow into a Magic Long bow. Sounded cool at the time.

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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Hue on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:29 am

    Slimes are weak to fire, i can't think of any other


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by lovely_shonen on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:10 pm

    Hachouma wrote:Slimes are weak to fire, i can't think of any other

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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Dj-B-Man-Jr on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 pm

    Why make an elemental long bow when the composite bow has more base damage? That makes it much more effective when turned ellemental
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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:14 pm

    After making one bow along a non-regular path I would say: Why make any bow elemental ever?

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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:25 pm

    lovely_shonen wrote:How much dex you have?

    I use that bow, but ascended to the lightining, works a lot!




    My DEX is 47, and actually i have a fully upgraded Blackbow of Pharis. I didn't create the chaos bow to actually play whit it but to test it.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:28 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I don't think there's many creatures (I can't actually think of one) that would be so weak to fire that the chaos version is going to be a great option. Keep the fire arrows though. They can be handy. For instance, I dislike Creature A and also would like a sandwich. Creature A is susceptible to poison damage.

    Step 1: Equip Hawk Ring

    Step 2: Position yourself way outside aggro range

    Step 3: Shoot at creature with bow from outside aggro range
    Step 3a: For those with good eyesight use standard arrows to home in on Creature A until you can see it hit (usually an impact animation or bloodspray)
    Step 3b: For those with poor eyesight, use Fire arrows as they are easier to "trace"

    Step 4: Once properly sighted in, use poison arrows to inflict poison

    Step 5: Get sandwich


    You may be asking yourself, why not just start with poison arrows? They're expensive and more importantly VALUABLE. At least in the above scenario. Yes I know fire arrows are just as expensive but they don't have VALUE. So if you're short on souls just sight in with standard arrows. Also, if you're not in a snack mood you can just equip feather arrows and you'll be able to headshot things from pretty dang far away with no repercussions, making a much faster kill.

    Conclusion: Fire + Bow = Meh

    But don't feel bad I turned my first ever long bow into a Magic Long bow. Sounded cool at the time.

    I only use poison arrows to kill the giants in Sen's Fortress and not always, in any other case i found such method aboslutely boring...i prefer to shoot light or normal arrows.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:53 pm

    Lol. It's very boring. I used to use it to farm souls in Anor Londo in NG. Poison the three giants near the mimic box. Poison the other three across the way. Run to the stairs before the O and S fight and kill those ones. Usually by the time you reach the pair near the stairs the other six were dying. IT turned out to be very efficient (until I killed O and S then Gwyndolin and turned the world dark that is).

    Also, feather arrows with hawk ring is absurd how far away you can mess things up from. If you're going the "out of aggro range" method that's much faster. Poison arrows = sandwich time. Only benefit

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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by ClassicBlaze on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:50 am

    Bows could definately use a buff...even with a +14 pharis bow and some feather arrows the damage is laughable, wich is a shame, since I love bows, so, one day, after reading about their elemental path I decided to try a +4 chaos composite bow with fire arrows.... wow....how that thing sucked....


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Hue on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:29 am

    At 47 dex, stat scaling damage far exceeds any elemental upgrade you could make.
    You should also upgrade the composite bow for close range and DPS (you can do 300+ damage with comp. bow + heavy arrows and hawk ring, and it fires faster than other bows)
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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by ClassicBlaze on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:09 pm

    Hachouma wrote:At 47 dex, stat scaling damage far exceeds any elemental upgrade you could make.
    You should also upgrade the composite bow for close range and DPS (you can do 300+ damage with comp. bow + heavy arrows and hawk ring, and it fires faster than other bows)

    Oh, I know, its just that they said chaos composite bow "hitted like a brick", wich is tottaly not the case. I already own both a +14 BBoP and a +14 Composite bow with 50 dex, and they are still kinda meh...composite hits harder, but pharis bow is much more cooler looking and has that awesome range.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by theznake on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:19 pm

    ClassicBlaze wrote:Bows could definately use a buff...even with a +14 pharis bow and some feather arrows the damage is laughable, wich is a shame, since I love bows, so, one day, after reading about their elemental path I decided to try a +4 chaos composite bow with fire arrows.... wow....how that thing sucked....

    Indeed, i did it for the very same reason and here we are...


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Orango19 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:28 am

    Random info: It also depends if you are snipping your enemies. Pharis has a longer reach and is made for snipping, therefore its attacks from far away, obviously make more dmg.

    Pharis + Feather Arrows + Hawk Ring = Snipping

    Chaos.CBow + Heavy Arrows = Close Range


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by dsg78gaming on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:24 pm

    I have found the composite bow at standard +15 is the hardest hitting bow and apart from its low range does more damage than anything else. As far as I can tell elemental bows are only useful if u have no stats in dex or str. They are just back up weapons for int or faith builds.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by Hue on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:30 pm


    This one is seriously plagued by it.

    It has been revived like...4 times? in 2 pages


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by twilightwarwolf on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:20 pm

    to my opinion bows should really only be magic, divine/occult, and normal i say the others as i jave an occult pharis bow on my 100 and with the moonlight arrows it does pretty good dam specially since i run into sorceror people who buff their spells with dusk XD. i also belive that for a bow pharis is the best (at least for me) as i like to have some range and stil like to deal a good amount of dam without the hawks ring.


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    Re: Crappy bow

    Post by VaDoom on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:35 am

    I've made a chaos composite bow +5 for a toon with 14str/16dext (will be used with heavy arrows). He won't go further.
    Before trying to make a regular CB+15 and wasting chunks and slabs, I'd like to know if th CB+15 will do better. I auto assumed that it would not be the case at these relatively low stats, but reading this topic, I'm starting to wonder.
    As anyone tested the difference at these stats or close?


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