I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:05 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.

    Those casual gamers can change, though. I am the only one in my group of gamer friends that has so far, but I'm working on changing a couple more.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:54 pm

    I think it's a matter of 'will or will not' rather than 'can or can not". It's a difference in interest, and what some of the players I suspect are being called elitist are like myself; they enjoy difficulty, (more) realistic combat, in-depth story that challenges and questions everything the player chooses. (is the Link the Fire or Dark Lord ending the 'good' ending? We don't know) Most mainstream fantasy films, books and games lack these characteristics. They have a black and white, arrogant morality, a spoonfed-obvious story, ridiculous dialogue and flashy, absurd combat. Souls has thus far been devotedly a keenly honest game. Some players are arrogant, yes; many others are just concerned that it will be dumbed down and lose the very aspects that we hold the games so dear for in an effort to have the game appeal to a wider audience.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:06 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.

    Sorry viral, but probably mistake making your post. Saying things like some are less equal I.. I don't even wanna know how deep your fascism goes but whatever.

    I also find it amusing how you talk about a new generation of gaming when you're not even out your teens, I certainly don't think I'm qualified to talk about "back when I started gaming...", besides difficulty in older games was partially because controls sucked if I'm honest.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Shkar on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:48 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.


    For the first part, It's not something that just affects gamers, nor just this "new generation". In fact, intelligence as a whole as been rising for the last couple of generations, even with things such as information inflation being taken into account.

    For the second, that's honestly not surprising to me. I started off with Dark Souls and I, in my honest opinion, was one of the better XBL players in the covenants section. I could beat most random players (assuming a decently fair fight) and quite a few of the forum goers. It also took me close to twenty minutes to beat the Asylum Demon, and probably around 5 tries to beat the Taurus Demon. Hell, I died quite a bit trying to GET to the Taurus Demon. If you have never played a game that handles like a Souls game, you aren't going to be good at it.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:15 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.

    Sorry viral, but probably mistake making your post. Saying things like some are less equal I.. I don't even wanna know how deep your fascism goes but whatever.

    I also find it amusing how you talk about a new generation of gaming when you're not even out your teens, I certainly don't think I'm qualified to talk about "back when I started gaming...", besides difficulty in older games was partially because controls sucked if I'm honest.

    Its not fascism to say that not all men are made equal though I dont mean equal fundamentally. I mean that some people are smarter than others, some stronger. It doesnt affect their inherant value at all.

    I mean you can't say that everyone is the same but different.

    In a sense I would say that a belief of everyone being equal is, ironically, equally as cruel as stating otherwise.

    But hey thats something else.

    Anywho I disagree with the statement that I am not a part of one generation of gaming simply because Im young. Generations of gaming would shape with the release of newer and new consoles. Thus every few years a new generations is born.

    I started gaming on the N64. So I would be in a different generation to someone who started on the 360. If I'm not of a different generation of gamer then nobody is because gaming must transcend all of time and console.

    Shall we pursue our discussion in PM Serious? Orwill we agree to drop it?


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ComaPrison on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:55 am

    The Letter X wrote:
    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.

    Those casual gamers can change, though. I am the only one in my group of gamer friends that has so far, but I'm working on changing a couple more.

    They can change, but some don't want to.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ComaPrison on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:58 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Im sorry, Im a bit drunk, and Im a bit anrgy, though not becuse of anything in particular, and I think the souls series does produce "better" quality gamers! Or perhaps not better quality but possesing of better virtues.

    I can't explain the number of times I have been disgusted at the state of casual gamers because they can't figure out the simplest of things, the number of times people expect to be guided through games because they can't be bothered to even think about the scenario presented to them, the countless times they have praised auto aim or OHKO's because they couldn't stand fighting enemies for more than a few seconds....

    Its pitiful. The new generations of gamers are weak. They know nothing of struggle, they plaay games that are made movies for them, they barely challenge themselves.

    I know thing because I challenged a casual to play dark souls and he couldnt beat the Taurus Demon. He couldnt get past the Black Knight. He was weak.

    There are levels of gamership whether you want to admit it or not. Some people are less equal than others, they can't handle the tasks that others can.

    Sorry viral, but probably mistake making your post. Saying things like some are less equal I.. I don't even wanna know how deep your fascism goes but whatever.

    I also find it amusing how you talk about a new generation of gaming when you're not even out your teens, I certainly don't think I'm qualified to talk about "back when I started gaming...", besides difficulty in older games was partially because controls sucked if I'm honest.

    Equality is an ideal, a principle. It is not reality, and never will be. For example, we all have different levels of willpower, patience, perseverance, critical thinking skills, composition skills, etc. It would be stupid to treat people with different levels of abilities as if they are all the same. Casual gamers are horrible gamers, but some of them will transcend that difficulty barrier. Many will not. That is the reality.

    Anyways, you should go read this book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

    I highly recommend it.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:04 am

    He was talking about equality not in skill but more in worthyness, which is something incorrect to state their (our I guess I'm not hardcore) opinions and right to play games is less.

    Interesting viral you'd choose not to discuss out in the open, but sure ill drop it, your drunken and probably misworded opinions aren't worth discussing really.

    Besides ITS CHRISTMASSS, I don't want people getting miffed today lol!


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ComaPrison on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:16 am

    Serious_Much wrote:He was talking about equality not in skill but more in worthyness, which is something incorrect to state their (our I guess I'm not hardcore) opinions and right to play games is less.

    Interesting viral you'd choose not to discuss out in the open, but sure ill drop it, your drunken and probably misworded opinions aren't worth discussing really.

    Besides ITS CHRISTMASSS, I don't want people getting miffed today lol!

    Worthy of what exactly? Everyone has a right to buy and play a game, although I consider it a privilege rather than a right. No one has the right to expect a game to be designed to suit their skill level and/or patience though. That's just ridiculous. Sometimes learning curves are steep, and that's just the nature of the beast.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:09 pm

    Nothing, I'm not debating.

    It's Christmas my dear little forum buddy <3


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by carlucio on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:40 pm

    Dark souls is not a hard game but a patience, perseverance check , but who can say those are not important skills? all sucessful men in the world persevered in their goals, no one will tell you: "Hey, bro, if something bothers you, just give up, its okay.

    I have a casual friend who stoped playing because he got cursed in the depths and didn't know how to fix it, do you really believe the game should be dumbed down to this audience? really:?
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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:35 pm

    Look, I think you guys need to accept that there is no such thing as a "new generation" of gamers. Its just that gaming has become more mainstream, so people that would have never picked up games during the last generation (casual players) are now picking them up. That phenomenon will only increase as games become more technologically advanced and continue to meet more needs. The "hardcore" player, as some would like to call it, is not tied to any past or present generation or culture. Its more of a certain type of person. Yes, some people can be "taught" to be better players, but to be as passionate about gaming as we all are, you just have to be that type of person. Tying it to a person's age or culture will never work. Hardcore players are not "dying out". There are just more and more casuals coming into the market, that the hardcore group, which is also growing, yet slower, will always seem much much smaller.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:48 pm

    I hate the term hardcore gamer. Makes me think of some guy plays video games 24/7, or that guy who makes fun of you if you don't pick Fox in supersmash bro's. Nothing against them, but I'm not them and don't want to be described in the same manner.

    I like hard games, it doesn't make me a hardcore gamer.

    Edit: it would seem wikipedia disagrees with me, oh well silly


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ComaPrison on Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:52 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:I hate the term hardcore gamer. Makes me think of some guy plays video games 24/7, or that guy who makes fun of you if you don't pick Fox in supersmash bro's. Nothing against them, but I'm not them and don't want to be described in the same manner.

    I like hard games, it doesn't make me a hardcore gamer.

    Edit: it would seem wikipedia disagrees with me, oh well silly

    You're a hardcore gamer.

    The guy who plays video games 24/7 is just obsessed/imbalanced/troubled/lacks other hobbies/lacks other ambitions. Not a hardcore gamer. The guy who makes fun of you if you don't pick Fox in Super Smash Bros is just an F-ing a-hole that has completely lost sight of the diversity that exists in the definition of fun (it's not always about winning). Tunnel vision at its worst.

    MasterofShadows wrote:Look, I think you guys need to accept that there is no such thing as a "new generation" of gamers. Its just that gaming has become more mainstream, so people that would have never picked up games during the last generation (casual players) are now picking them up. That phenomenon will only increase as games become more technologically advanced and continue to meet more needs. The "hardcore" player, as some would like to call it, is not tied to any past or present generation or culture. Its more of a certain type of person. Yes, some people can be "taught" to be better players, but to be as passionate about gaming as we all are, you just have to be that type of person. Tying it to a person's age or culture will never work. Hardcore players are not "dying out". There are just more and more casuals coming into the market, that the hardcore group, which is also growing, yet slower, will always seem much much smaller.

    Agreed. The hardcore group exists in every generation. It's just that the casual group is expanding much more rapidly in size due to the recent explosion in gaming's accessibility. That being said, there still should be games dedicated for the hardcore groups. If game companies lose sight of that, it would be tragic for the progress of game design as an art. It's one of the reasons why I am so vociferously opposed to any sign of the casualization/mainstreaming of Dark Souls 2.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:11 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:He was talking about equality not in skill but more in worthyness, which is something incorrect to state their (our I guess I'm not hardcore) opinions and right to play games is less.

    Interesting viral you'd choose not to discuss out in the open, but sure ill drop it, your drunken and probably misworded opinions aren't worth discussing really.

    Besides ITS CHRISTMASSS, I don't want people getting miffed today lol!

    Instead eat drink and be merry for tomorow we shall buy....

    Yeah a terrible pun....


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:34 pm

    Well ivd got the eating and drinking part down so it's cool winking


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:23 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:I hate the term hardcore gamer. Makes me think of some guy plays video games 24/7, or that guy who makes fun of you if you don't pick Fox in supersmash bro's. Nothing against them, but I'm not them and don't want to be described in the same manner.

    I like hard games, it doesn't make me a hardcore gamer.

    Edit: it would seem wikipedia disagrees with me, oh well silly

    You're a hardcore gamer.

    The guy who plays video games 24/7 is just obsessed/imbalanced/troubled/lacks other hobbies/lacks other ambitions. Not a hardcore gamer. The guy who makes fun of you if you don't pick Fox in Super Smash Bros is just an F-ing a-hole that has completely lost sight of the diversity that exists in the definition of fun (it's not always about winning). Tunnel vision at its worst.

    MasterofShadows wrote:Look, I think you guys need to accept that there is no such thing as a "new generation" of gamers. Its just that gaming has become more mainstream, so people that would have never picked up games during the last generation (casual players) are now picking them up. That phenomenon will only increase as games become more technologically advanced and continue to meet more needs. The "hardcore" player, as some would like to call it, is not tied to any past or present generation or culture. Its more of a certain type of person. Yes, some people can be "taught" to be better players, but to be as passionate about gaming as we all are, you just have to be that type of person. Tying it to a person's age or culture will never work. Hardcore players are not "dying out". There are just more and more casuals coming into the market, that the hardcore group, which is also growing, yet slower, will always seem much much smaller.

    Agreed. The hardcore group exists in every generation. It's just that the casual group is expanding much more rapidly in size due to the recent explosion in gaming's accessibility. That being said, there still should be games dedicated for the hardcore groups. If game companies lose sight of that, it would be tragic for the progress of game design as an art. It's one of the reasons why I am so vociferously opposed to any sign of the casualization/mainstreaming of Dark Souls 2.

    Another good reason to not forget about the hardcore base is because they tend to be the most consistent consumer base. We will stay committed to what we percieve to be a good product, while the rest of the consumer base tends to have a much wider amount of interests, even those outside of gaming, making them slightly more difficult to please IMO.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by dancash1808 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:14 pm

    The problem is kids these days and their "angry birds" and whatnot!
    haha.
    Seriously though there is a new generation of gamers. they will define gaming as what they are given and their expecations will be set based on what they played as kids. same as how we all look at games today and call it dumbing down, people who had grown up with them would call our games overcomplicated and dull (well some of them would, the section who like to complain)


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:19 pm

    Hey man, getting 3 stars in every level of angry birds ain't easy!


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by dancash1808 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:26 pm

    not to mention it doesnt tell you the plot it shows you and lets you work it out for yourself and apply meaning. doesnt tell you how to play and throws you in and expects you to work it out.
    oh god. angry birds = hardcore.
    dark souls = hardcore.
    angry birds = dark souls.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:32 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:not to mention it doesnt tell you the plot it shows you and lets you work it out for yourself and apply meaning. doesnt tell you how to play and throws you in and expects you to work it out.
    oh god. angry birds = hardcore.
    dark souls = hardcore.
    angry birds = dark souls.

    That sarcasm was so intense that I'm not even sure if ComaPrison could top that.


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:33 pm

    They're different forms of entertainment. Angry birds is supposed to be something that keeps you busy while you're on bus/train or just plain bored. Dark Soul's actually requires that you take time to sit down in front of a tv/monitor and think about what you're doing/are going to do.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:36 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:They're different forms of entertainment. Angry birds is supposed to be something that keeps you busy while you're on bus/train or just plain bored. Dark Soul's actually requires that you take time to sit down in front of a tv/monitor and think about what you're doing/are going to do.

    He wasn't serious silly
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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by dancash1808 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:41 pm

    The Letter X wrote:
    That sarcasm was so intense that I'm not even sure if ComaPrison could top that.

    There is a challenger to my throne of sarcasm?! THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.



    Sloth9230 wrote:They're different forms of entertainment. Angry birds is supposed to be something that keeps you busy while you're on bus/train or just plain bored. Dark Soul's actually requires that you take time to sit down in front of a tv/monitor and think about what you're doing/are going to do.

    Clearly you are not "pro" enough >.> why not play dark souls while on a train big grin if someone starts going on there phone you unplug your headphones and go to oolacile big grin Ignore all dirty looks big grin


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    Re: I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:44 pm

    Too busy playing Pokaymonz

    Gotta catch 'em all!


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