Parries and Ripostes

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    Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:44 pm

    Does anyone else think that ripostes are underpowered in pvp? I use an Iaito +15with sunlight blade and barely scratch most players health if I land a riposte. But I don't want to resort to the hornet ring since that would give me OP backstabs, I mean even though it's been nerfed, the backstab damage is ridonkulus. I just think that the difficulty and risk of pulling off a riposte in PvP should reap a better reward than 100 more damage than a backstab, which is a much easier and safer method.
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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:03 pm

    A non hornets ring with a large club will riposte for 1000+ damage unbuffed. Hring is to 1300+, buffed is to 1600+, both ring and buff is 2200+. Thats hardly underpowered.

    Its your weapon. Parrys may be high risk compared to regular attacks or bsing, but kats are low risk, low reward weapons. Thus your damage is lower across the board.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by SillentShadow on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:08 pm

    Change the katana to a weapon with high crit bonus and then it will be worthy.
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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:13 pm

    Ok, I was just thinking about this but I'll stick with my kat, maybe keep a rapier or something as backup for a riposte however. Does the 110 crit bonus = 110% damage where a 100 would be 100% damage? Sorry if these questions seem nooby, I've just recently started pvping.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:15 pm

    By the way, I'm not just talking about the riposte damage, I think that the difference between a riposte and a backstab should be higher. With, preferably, the damage from a bs being reduced so the riposte damage is more worth it. I think bses should still be in the game but weaker.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:21 pm

    I'v changed my mind Forum, without the invincibility frames ripostes would also suffer.

    Hyrdreigon: I agree, A riposte should do more damage than a backstab.

    Edit: I think Forum is right, I've been able to 1-shot enemies with a riposte that wouldn't get 1-shotted with backstab, I've never actually checked the damage though.



    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:22 pm

    Yes, but keep in mind all weapons have increased crit damage. 110 is an additional modifier on top of that.

    Rapiers have abnormally high crit damage compared to similarly powerful weapons though. Most likely, a rapier or estoc will outdamage your kat with a crit.

    Different discussion for different thread, but imo a reduced hitbox for bs's would do the trick while allowing them to retail their effectiveness as stealth attacks and idiot punishes.

    Riposts do outdamage backstabs.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Riposts do outdamage backstabs.

    I know that they outdo backstabs but I'm suggesting they should do more than they already do. I don't think the difference is large enough. I've tried it myself and I think there's only a 200-300 damage increase. With the risk involved with parrying the increase from bs to riposte should be more.
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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:38 pm

    Its not that risky. Partial parries are easy. I can do those all day.

    Besides, in trying for a bs, you risk the same amount of damage from a counter bs/spell punish/counter hit but without the partial parry saftey net.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:42 pm

    Definitely don't wan't kats to have a higher crit. They already have low weight, stat requirement, insane damage per second, and bleed.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:44 pm

    I wouldn't call katanas low weight...


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:49 pm

    Weight of 5-6 is much lower than the weight I'm used to playing with (not including the washing pole). May not be light compared to curved swords however.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:53 pm

    AGHHHH.

    I'm sorry but it seems like no one is getting my point. I don't want my katana to have a crit mod, nor do I want other swords except weak daggers/rapiers. I'm saying that, proportionally, a riposte with ANY weapon should significantly outdo the damage of a backstab from that weapon. Moreso than it already does. And if you think it would make ripostes OP you could make backstabs less powerful so people try to parry to get the extra damage.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:56 pm

    I guess I didn't notice that disparity. You are saying the kat's riposte damage isn't as proportionally high as other weapons?


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:59 pm

    I think the riposte bonus should vary more between weapons, and be inversely proportionate to the AR. When they nerfed the hornet ring they should have just taken out the bonus for backstabs, so it would still be somewhat usable without all the salt.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:01 pm

    That would work for PVE, since their is greater risk in parrying. But not for Pvp since like Forum said, most people know how to counter-backstab(though I do believe the heavier weapons should get their backstab damage nerfed). I don't think it would encourage parrying so much as it would encourage parry spamming though.

    Reim: I was comparing it to claymores and bastard swords. It makes we wonder were all the katana's extra weight is located lol

    I think the problem is that the damage is proportional to other weapons, they use the same crit modifier after all(unless stated otherwise). Since they use the same modifier, higher damage weapons(heavier weapons) get a bigger boost.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:48 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:03 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Reim: I was comparing it to slaymores and bastard swords. It makes we wonder were all the katana's extra weight is located lol
    Got it. Seems strange to me too.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:03 pm

    reim0027 wrote:I guess I didn't notice that disparity. You are saying the kat's riposte damage isn't as proportionally high as other weapons?

    No, I'm saying in general across all weapons, the riposte damage isn't as high as it should be compared to the backstab. I can't see how this turned into a kat thread but if it was me I apologise. I'm just saying across all weapons, the riposte should do a lot more damage than the backstab with that weapon does.

    PS. Wait wut. how does a claymore weigh only 1.0 more than a katana. Katanas are swift, light (as light as steel can be) and shwingy (I needed a third adjective ok?). Seriously I can't see how a katana can weigh so much, where is the weight, is the hilt made of lead or something?
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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:06 pm

    Hydreigon11 wrote:
    reim0027 wrote:I guess I didn't notice that disparity. You are saying the kat's riposte damage isn't as proportionally high as other weapons?

    No, I'm saying in general across all weapons, the riposte damage isn't as high as it should be compared to the backstab. I can't see how this turned into a kat thread but if it was me I apologise. I'm just saying across all weapons, the riposte should do a lot more damage than the backstab with that weapon does.

    It's because the damage modifier is the same for all weapons(unless the stats tell you otherwise) So it becomes more noticeable on weapons with higher damage.

    A weapon that normally has an Ar of 400 would get a backstab of 800(I'm not sure what the actual multiplier is) while a weapon that has an Ar of 600 would get boosted to 1200. That's a 400 AR difference even if the original weapons only had a 200 Ar difference.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:14 pm; edited 3 times in total


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:08 pm

    I could go for that, but only with the removal of partial parries and a failed parry initiating frames of counter damage vulnerability if the parrier is hit. Then its legitimately risky with a huge pay off.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:02 pm

    Ripostes already do huge damage. And their damage vs. backstabs isn't that relevant. They could do the same amount of damage as a BS and still be used exactly the same as they are now. You don't use parries in the same context as a backstab. You aren't going to get into a situation where you are choosing whether or not to BS or Parry based on the damage you get. You use whichever one is appropriate given the situation.


    Last edited by Saturday-Saint on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:08 pm

    Fighting against slow weapons like the hammers/axes and ultra great swords thats exactly what I do. "Do I risk a parry or just roll bs?" is often my thought process.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:12 pm

    So if parries did the same amount of damage as a backstab, you just wouldn't go for them, and you'd roll BS every time instead?


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:14 pm

    Now that I think about it, do you have enough time after a parry to switch weapons and still land the riposte?

    Cause I know you can switch to two hand.


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    Re: Parries and Ripostes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:30 pm

    @ Saturday-Saint if they did the same amount of damage yes, but they don't.

    @sloth yes, but you best be quick about it. Its a devastating tactic if you use it to hide a really high riposte damage weapon until its to late to stop it.


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