So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

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    So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:45 pm

    This just hit me one day that I've never seen this be discussed. Frankly, I can understand why, we're given no information about them, only that they were just found "in the flame".

    I have nothing more to say, sadly, as I'm not really..up to speed 100% on the Lore. Go for it \o/.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:21 pm

    You could also ask who, or what created the first flame. winking

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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:31 pm

    The First Flame (idea orignally came from Shkar) is the Soul of the planet. The Lord Souls are just fragments of this soul. For me, this is the reasoning behind this line of thinking, and if you've got time to read it let me know what you think =) http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled



    **My comment makes it sound like this is proven or something; however, it's all just speculation of course =)


    Last edited by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:08 pm

    Whew @_@ I just read all of your comments on that page, Death, and my god lol. It's too much for me to keep up with!

    Your theories are extremely interesting and I'de love to keep an eye on them.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:17 pm

    XachAttack wrote:Whew @_@ I just read all of your comments on that page, Death, and my god lol. It's too much for me to keep up with!

    Your theories are extremely interesting and I'de love to keep an eye on them.



    XD Sorry that's a draw back of my Analysis Series... it's a lot of reading... Thanks for taking the time to give it a look =) If you couldn't tell I love speculating and trying to prove it with item descriptions and such. Most of my Analysis Series is hours and hours of research poured into just a few comments.. even my eyes start to cross when writing it lol!


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Shkar on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:16 am

    Deathsitexxi wrote:The First Flame (idea orignally came from Shkar) is the Soul of the planet. The Lord Souls are just fragments of this soul. For me, this is the reasoning behind this line of thinking, and if you've got time to read it let me know what you think =) http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled



    **My comment makes it sound like this is proven or something; however, it's all just speculation of course =)

    My legend lives on.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:07 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Deathsitexxi wrote:The First Flame (idea orignally came from Shkar) is the Soul of the planet. The Lord Souls are just fragments of this soul. For me, this is the reasoning behind this line of thinking, and if you've got time to read it let me know what you think =) http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t15104-analysis-series-dark-souls-intro-truths-reveled



    **My comment makes it sound like this is proven or something; however, it's all just speculation of course =)

    My legend lives on.



    I don't know if I'd say legend =P I see you more like a monomyth kinda like Prince Ricard. On a serious note though, that idea is the only reason I researched enough to come up with the Primordial Soup threory, which I think meshes pretty well with the "Soul of the planet" idea.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by defacto on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:11 pm

    I do love how they distinguish between "Bequeathed Lord Soul" and "Lord Soul" when you are gathering them for the Lordvessel.

    The 4 kings and Seath the Scaleless were both given their Lord Souls. They were not part of the original 3 who had them. I do believe that the 4 kings and Seath were both given smaller fragments from Lord Gywn as well.

    But I guess Lord Gywn lost his after he sacrificed himself to keep the flames going. Unless it was just a game mechanic. It's hard to determine between lore and game mechanics sometimes.

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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:37 pm

    defacto wrote:I do love how they distinguish between "Bequeathed Lord Soul" and "Lord Soul" when you are gathering them for the Lordvessel.

    The 4 kings and Seath the Scaleless were both given their Lord Souls. They were not part of the original 3 who had them. I do believe that the 4 kings and Seath were both given smaller fragments from Lord Gywn as well.

    But I guess Lord Gywn lost his after he sacrificed himself to keep the flames going. Unless it was just a game mechanic. It's hard to determine between lore and game mechanics sometimes.


    The cool thing about Gywn is when he was attempting to re-link the flame he had no Lord Soul within him. It was just him; his regular soul and his sword (give or take a few black knights that went with him). Before he went off he gave the rest of his Lord Soul power to his kids

    Reference the Great Lord Greatsword: Greatsword born from the soul of Gwyn, Lord of Cinder. As bearer of the ultimate soul, Gwyn wielded the bolts of the sun, but before linking the fire, divided that power amongst his children, and set off with only this great sword as his companion.

    So we can basically take from this...The ultimate soul was the Lord Soul, which gave him the power to wield the bolts of the sun. He gave out the rest of that power before he went on his final journey (why we don't see him tossing bolts at us during his fight, he's purely melee). The soul he has is his own; the soul he held before and while he obtained the Lord Soul, which in its own right is powerful but not the same caliber as the ultimate soul.

    A cinder is: a partially or mostly burned piece of coal, wood, etc. It is also, a live, flameless coal; ember.

    Replace the word coal with Hollow and the word flameless with Lightless (and use the meaning of light from my previous linked posting above^) and you’ll get what they are saying when they call Gywn the Lord of Cinder. He is now the most powerful and Lord of the “hollow” and it seems the Lord Soul of Light he once held protected him from the Undead/Hollow/Dark curse to begin with. This to me shows as I’ve said above that my Primordial Soup theory is (in my mind anyways) pretty close to the truth.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by SpecialNewb on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:01 am

    ^With all due respect, I disagree. I don't think Gwyn HAD a soul before he found the Lord Soul. That part's open to debate and just my opinion, but if he doesn't have his Lord Soul in the Kiln, why do we get it for beating him?

    From the description:
    Lord Gwyn bequeathed most of his power to the
    Gods, and burned as cinder for the First
    Flame, but even so, Lord Gwyn's soul
    is a powerful thing indeed.
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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:27 am

    SpecialNewb wrote:^With all due respect, I disagree. I don't think Gwyn HAD a soul before he found the Lord Soul. That part's open to debate and just my opinion, but if he doesn't have his Lord Soul in the Kiln, why do we get it for beating him?

    From the description:
    Lord Gwyn bequeathed most of his power to the
    Gods, and burned as cinder for the First
    Flame, but even so, Lord Gwyn's soul
    is a powerful thing indeed.

    Where it says "most of his power" it is referring to the Lord Soul you're correct. Because he found the Ultimate Lord Soul in the First Flame he was in possession of it's power making it "his power" and yes he gave away that power (of the Lord Soul) before he left for the Kiln (reference Great Lord Greatsword). However, with that description you linked it specifically says "Lord Gwyn's soul" not Lord Gwyn's Lord Soul is a "powerful thing indeed". There is a difference between the two and even the description you quoted shows it. We can agree to disagree that's fine, but if you look at the way they word things it seems pretty clear to me (I could be delusional/hollow from all my lore hunting though) =)


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by RedderAI on Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:50 pm

    This thread just made me realize that you do not get a lord soul when you defeat Gwyn. Which makes me wonder "why don't you need all the power of Gwyns lord soul? Are Seaths and the Four Kings souls enough? It does say in the description of both that they re just mere fragments of the soul but they are enough to satiate the lord vessel. Is it a 50/50 deal? I mean if he gave the rest of his power to his children (i.e. the rest of the lord vessel) then by doesn't gwyndolin drop a fragment; why don't you even see the real Gwynevere?

    Sometimes it seems like potholes but sometimes I feel they left things "shaded" for a reason. I dunno.
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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by SpecialNewb on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:22 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:Where it says "most of his power" it is referring to the Lord Soul you're correct. Because he found the Ultimate Lord Soul in the First Flame he was in possession of it's power making it "his power" and yes he gave away that power (of the Lord Soul) before he left for the Kiln (reference Great Lord Greatsword). However, with that description you linked it specifically says "Lord Gwyn's soul" not Lord Gwyn's Lord Soul is a "powerful thing indeed". There is a difference between the two and even the description you quoted shows it. We can agree to disagree that's fine, but if you look at the way they word things it seems pretty clear to me (I could be delusional/hollow from all my lore hunting though) =)
    Now that's an interesting observation, and it made me want to look at the other descriptions which I quoted in part so we can look closer at the meaning and format of the words.

    The soul you gain from Nito and from the Bed of Chaos are titled "Lord Soul" but look at the description as written out. It's the same for both, just change the name.

    Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
    of all demons. This Lord Soul was found
    at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
    The first phrase is the exact same as the "Soul of Gwyn." Then later in Nito's description:
    The power of his soul is
    so great the it satiates the Lordvessel
    once again referring to a Lord Soul clearly without calling it a Lord Soul. So it appears there are cases where Lord Souls can be described merely as 'Souls.'

    ED: Also in the descriptions of the fragments from Seath and the 4 Kings it describes them as a "fragment of a great soul." Once again, clearly referring to a Lord Soul.

    In the end, it doesn't refute your point completely (it's a good observation!) but I still have my doubts. You may be trying to read deeper into something that is intended.
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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Slarg232 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:05 pm

    So Gwyn's soul allowed him to hurl lightning? Interesting...



    Who do we know that hurls lightning?


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by RedderAI on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:04 am

    Slarg232 wrote:So Gwyn's soul allowed him to hurl lightning? Interesting...



    Who do we know that hurls lightning?

    Maybe Gwyn created the sanctuary Gaurdian with a part of his lord soul. Like how Zeus created a Pegasus. I mean if all the lords were just like everyone else before they found the souls of lords in the flames then maybe each soul had a certain power that was needed for the world of the living to e made. Witch=fire Gwyn=light Nito=death. It makes sense.
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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:21 pm

    It's unlikely that Gwyn made the sanctuary gaurdian. The decsription from it's soul says that it is closer to a demon than...what was it an angel? Anyway Gwyn would not go to that method as that would contradict his black knights weapons bonus against demons.

    As who else who shoots lighting we have Solaire who uses it well. It could be because Solaire may be Gwyn's firstborn or that he learned it as part of finding his sun travels. The intro shows many others of Gwyn's army throwing lighting at the dragons so my theory is that lighting bolts are learned. However when we give Gwyn's soul for the Sunlight Bolt, this type may be exclusive to him before he went hollow, as the last bit of power the lord of cinder had.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:12 pm

    SpecialNewb wrote:
    Deathsitexxi wrote:Where it says "most of his power" it is referring to the Lord Soul you're correct. Because he found the Ultimate Lord Soul in the First Flame he was in possession of it's power making it "his power" and yes he gave away that power (of the Lord Soul) before he left for the Kiln (reference Great Lord Greatsword). However, with that description you linked it specifically says "Lord Gwyn's soul" not Lord Gwyn's Lord Soul is a "powerful thing indeed". There is a difference between the two and even the description you quoted shows it. We can agree to disagree that's fine, but if you look at the way they word things it seems pretty clear to me (I could be delusional/hollow from all my lore hunting though) =)
    Now that's an interesting observation, and it made me want to look at the other descriptions which I quoted in part so we can look closer at the meaning and format of the words.

    The soul you gain from Nito and from the Bed of Chaos are titled "Lord Soul" but look at the description as written out. It's the same for both, just change the name.

    Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
    of all demons. This Lord Soul was found
    at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
    The first phrase is the exact same as the "Soul of Gwyn." Then later in Nito's description:
    The power of his soul is
    so great the it satiates the Lordvessel
    once again referring to a Lord Soul clearly without calling it a Lord Soul. So it appears there are cases where Lord Souls can be described merely as 'Souls.'

    ED: Also in the descriptions of the fragments from Seath and the 4 Kings it describes them as a "fragment of a great soul." Once again, clearly referring to a Lord Soul.

    In the end, it doesn't refute your point completely (it's a good observation!) but I still have my doubts. You may be trying to read deeper into something that is intended.

    You're right it doesn't prove me wrong but... it doesn't make my ideas look good either XD If you've read any of my analysis series then you know I do have a bad habit of reading deeper into things than I should =) Just trying to see things in different perspectives. Thanks for taking the time to look that stuff up and actually read my post. I'm going to have to dig into it a little more to see if I can prove (prolly not happening XD) my point.


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    Re: So, who do you think the Lord Souls used to belong to?

    Post by Shkar on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:05 am

    What your all missing is that Gwyn's soul specifically says, in order, that he "gave up his lord soul" and then traveled with ONLY his sword for a companion. That's as compelling an argument as any that the Lord Souls may be sentient.


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