The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Nybbles on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:39 am

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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by GkMrBane on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:39 am


    Rynn happy we both know that you set up this topic with the soul purpose of being able to use that. LOL


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:48 am


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Dante_000 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:19 pm


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Nybbles on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:46 pm

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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:50 pm


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Rynn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:02 pm

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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:06 pm

    Rynn wrote:The crystal Ring shield; 20 casts before needing repair (due to weapon damage), and pre-patch it nailed about 1190 damage per hit if you wielded the TCC in your main hand; which according to my testing is the highest damage you could get outside of modded gear.

    Dark Bead with the TCC nails approximately 3400 damage per hit under the same circumstances.

    The argument that the Crystal Ring Shield made PvE too easy is why it was nerfed. You could easily ram it into a boss over and over for a very easy kill. However, Dark Bead can easily slay a boss in one or two casts with it's damage output.

    Is Dark Bead's damage output too high, and in need of nerfing in order to maintain the game's status quo as difficult? What is your opinions and thoughts?

    Lately I've seen lot of posts of yours claiming "WoG with Dusk Crown and Firstborn Ring & Princess Ring does around 1300 damage" and the such (not exactly the numbers but it was close), I have to say that that's hard to believe, unless you're talking about level 200 and above (still hard to believe) and if you're are in NG or NG+ (against people in PvP they would have to be almost unarmored). I have a pure faith build with 48 FTH currently, Darkmoon Talisman, both rings mentioned equipped and Dusk Crown, and the highest damage I have done to a unarmored player is around 800.

    Now I see this... I want you to please tell me with which stats, and which equipment, does Dark Bead 3400 damage and against which kind of mob you are seeing it happen PER HIT. I'm going to guess you mean if ALL the projectiles hit at the same time, because 3400 damage per projectile sounds ridiculous.

    Finally, the problem about the Crystal Ring Shield it's that it had almost no requirements meaning it could be used by any kind of build at ANY level, it was acquired from a low-level weak boss, and along an elemental heavy weapon (which were after nerfed too in 1.06 because they were too powerful), did ridicouls damage while being extremely low level. Doing 800 damage per hit without any effort and almost without stats was ridiculous.

    Dark Bead HAS a INT requirement (18 INT), AND requires a good catalyst and high MAD ADJ (meaning you need MORE INT in other words to be HIGHER LEVEL) to do ridiculous damage AND you have to be close to hit with all the projectiles together. It's not the same that Crystal Ring Shield was AT ALL.


    Last edited by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Nybbles on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:09 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Rynn wrote:The crystal Ring shield; 20 casts before needing repair (due to weapon damage), and pre-patch it nailed about 1190 damage per hit if you wielded the TCC in your main hand; which according to my testing is the highest damage you could get outside of modded gear.

    Dark Bead with the TCC nails approximately 3400 damage per hit under the same circumstances.

    The argument that the Crystal Ring Shield made PvE too easy is why it was nerfed. You could easily ram it into a boss over and over for a very easy kill. However, Dark Bead can easily slay a boss in one or two casts with it's damage output.

    Is Dark Bead's damage output too high, and in need of nerfing in order to maintain the game's status quo as difficult? What is your opinions and thoughts?

    Lately I've seen lot of posts of yours claiming "WoG with Dusk Crown and Firstborn Ring & Princess Ring does around 1300 damage" (not exactly the numbers with it was close), I have to say that that's hard to believe, unless you're talking about level 200 and above (still hard to believe) and if you're are in NG or NG+ (against people in PvP they would have to be almost unarmored).

    Now I see this... I want you to please tell me with which stats, and which equipment, does Dark Bead 3400 damage and against which kind of mob you are seeing it happen PER HIT. I'm going to guess you mean if ALL the projectiles hit at the same time, because 3400 damage per projectile sounds ridiculous.

    Finally, the problem about the Crystal Ring Shield it's that it had almost no requirements meaning it could be used by any kind of build at ANY level, it was acquired from a low-level weak boss, and along an elemental heavy weapon (which were after nerfed too in 1.06 because they were too powerful), did ridicouls damage while being extremely low level. Doing 800 damage per hit without any effort and almost without stats was ridiculous.

    Dark Bead HAS a INT requirement (18 INT), AND requires a good catalyst and high MAD ADJ (meaning you need MORE INT in other words to be HIGHER LEVEL) to do ridiculous damage. It's not the same that Crystal Ring Shield was AT ALL.

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381174
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 pm

    Nybbles wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    Rynn wrote:The crystal Ring shield; 20 casts before needing repair (due to weapon damage), and pre-patch it nailed about 1190 damage per hit if you wielded the TCC in your main hand; which according to my testing is the highest damage you could get outside of modded gear.

    Dark Bead with the TCC nails approximately 3400 damage per hit under the same circumstances.

    The argument that the Crystal Ring Shield made PvE too easy is why it was nerfed. You could easily ram it into a boss over and over for a very easy kill. However, Dark Bead can easily slay a boss in one or two casts with it's damage output.

    Is Dark Bead's damage output too high, and in need of nerfing in order to maintain the game's status quo as difficult? What is your opinions and thoughts?

    Lately I've seen lot of posts of yours claiming "WoG with Dusk Crown and Firstborn Ring & Princess Ring does around 1300 damage" (not exactly the numbers with it was close), I have to say that that's hard to believe, unless you're talking about level 200 and above (still hard to believe) and if you're are in NG or NG+ (against people in PvP they would have to be almost unarmored).

    Now I see this... I want you to please tell me with which stats, and which equipment, does Dark Bead 3400 damage and against which kind of mob you are seeing it happen PER HIT. I'm going to guess you mean if ALL the projectiles hit at the same time, because 3400 damage per projectile sounds ridiculous.

    Finally, the problem about the Crystal Ring Shield it's that it had almost no requirements meaning it could be used by any kind of build at ANY level, it was acquired from a low-level weak boss, and along an elemental heavy weapon (which were after nerfed too in 1.06 because they were too powerful), did ridicouls damage while being extremely low level. Doing 800 damage per hit without any effort and almost without stats was ridiculous.

    Dark Bead HAS a INT requirement (18 INT), AND requires a good catalyst and high MAD ADJ (meaning you need MORE INT in other words to be HIGHER LEVEL) to do ridiculous damage. It's not the same that Crystal Ring Shield was AT ALL.

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381174

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381175

    Rynn please answer my previous post, I edited so reading the quote in this same post is not an option.


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Rynn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:20 pm

    I'm comparing the damage potentials here, Chiz.
    click for an explanation of how my numbers were received:

    My numbers came from my level 713 char. The damage potential of Dark Bead is 3400 on Smough and Ornstein. Meanwhile when I unpatch and use the pre-nerf crystal ring shield I can peg 1190 damage with the use of the TCC, and I only get to 1100 with the greatsword of artorias; which has the highest AR of all weapons in the game at that level.

    Also the number you're looking for is "I can hit 1300 on a counter-hit". Meaning when I catch someone in a roll or attack and get bonus damage. I use Dusk Crown, Suns firstborn, and the princess ring, with 50 faith for that. 1300 is how much I've hit to other players at the most. My damage range under those circumstances is 780-1300. I usually peg around 1100 on counter hits, but when I'm wanting to feel awesome, I tend to list the highest damage I see on an hourly basis.

    Dark Bead can peg about 800-1000 damage with 16 int, 10 attunement, and the oolacile catalyst. The total requirements to do that would be 0.5 weight, the Dusk Crown, and Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring.

    The Crystal Ring shield can also hit around 800-1000 damage. Generally with elemental weapons. If we took the Zwei for it's 720(?) AR, that's 13 pounds, 24 strength, and 10 dexterity required. So to hit similar numbers with the Crystal Ring Shield requires far more weight to be worn for the same effect, but saves you a ring slot. The only problem with the shield would seem to be that the same weapons that cause it to do obscene damage also were extraordinary for backstabbing.

    Since Dark Bead has similar requirements, shouldn't it be nerfed?

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381197
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Dante_000 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:49 pm


    Huh I though Magic barrier was 85%, and even though the spells say they do physical damage they actually do pure magic damage, with more stamina damage.
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by steveswede on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:56 pm

    In my mind the crystal ring shield should scale with intelligence instead of right hand weapons and have a max damage of 800 at 44 intelligence. There shouldn't be a minimum intelligence requirement much like how the titanite pole doesn't have one and maybe make the durability run down more so you can only cast 10 instead of 20.
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Rynn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:58 pm

    Dante_000 wrote:

    Huh I though Magic barrier was 85%, and even though the spells say they do physical damage they actually do pure magic damage, with more stamina damage.
    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381235
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:05 pm

    Rynn wrote:I'm comparing the damage potentials here, Chiz.
    click for an explanation of how my numbers were received:

    My numbers came from my level 713 char. The damage potential of Dark Bead is 3400 on Smough and Ornstein. Meanwhile when I unpatch and use the pre-nerf crystal ring shield I can peg 1190 damage with the use of the TCC, and I only get to 1100 with the greatsword of artorias; which has the highest AR of all weapons in the game at that level.

    Also the number you're looking for is "I can hit 1300 on a counter-hit". Meaning when I catch someone in a roll or attack and get bonus damage. I use Dusk Crown, Suns firstborn, and the princess ring, with 50 faith for that. 1300 is how much I've hit to other players at the most. My damage range under those circumstances is 780-1300. I usually peg around 1100 on counter hits, but when I'm wanting to feel awesome, I tend to list the highest damage I see on an hourly basis.

    Dark Bead can peg about 800-1000 damage with 16 int, 10 attunement, and the oolacile catalyst. The total requirements to do that would be 0.5 weight, the Dusk Crown, and Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring.

    The Crystal Ring shield can also hit around 800-1000 damage. Generally with elemental weapons. If we took the Zwei for it's 720(?) AR, that's 13 pounds, 24 strength, and 10 dexterity required. So to hit similar numbers with the Crystal Ring Shield requires far more weight to be worn for the same effect, but saves you a ring slot. The only problem with the shield would seem to be that the same weapons that cause it to do obscene damage also were extraordinary for backstabbing.

    Since Dark Bead has similar requirements, shouldn't it be nerfed?

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381197

    There is no point is testing anything at level 713. Really why would you even mention that? If you want to talk about balance in PvP, then you must talk about the common level where we all PvP. If you want to talk about PvE, then there IS NO POINT in talking from level 713; on a side note, in which NG you got 3400 damage?

    And the thing about Dark Bead doing 800-1000 with 16 INT and 10 ATT, against which enemy? The Crystal Ring Shield required far less thing to accomplish. Your comparison of Crystal Ring Shield with a strong weapon doing 1100 damage and Dark Bead with maximum stats and equipment at level 713 doing 3400 damage is ridicolous.

    If you want to compare Dark Bead at low levels VS Crystal Ring Shield then it's more reasonable. The Crystal Ring Shield has far less requirement than the Dark Bead. And Dark Bead has to be acquired in the hardest/strongest area of the game (Chasm of the Abyss). Even if you don't think it's the hardest it's still a very high level area.

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381238


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Rynn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm

    Earlier in the thread, someone accused me of making this thread just so I could OBJECT to the arguements.

    That's not true. I've been trying to bring across my points and opinions in far more constructive manners, such as debates. You all (if you visited the PvP section) know how i used to debate things like the Dragonslayer Spear and the Dark Wood Grain Ring. It was more of "I'M ANGRY AND I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT". While I doubt I'll ever get rid of my air of "I'm right and you're wrong", I try my best to curb down on that and listen to other peoples arguments, because I feel like a real ***** when later, regardless of if I'm right or wrong, because often when I've been debating in the past, I am being exactly that (My high rep eludes me to why I have it sometimes.)

    So the purpose of this thread was exactly the same as my backstab thread. To promote a healthy conversation about something I have a strong opinion on.
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Rynn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:15 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Rynn wrote:I'm comparing the damage potentials here, Chiz.
    click for an explanation of how my numbers were received:

    My numbers came from my level 713 char. The damage potential of Dark Bead is 3400 on Smough and Ornstein. Meanwhile when I unpatch and use the pre-nerf crystal ring shield I can peg 1190 damage with the use of the TCC, and I only get to 1100 with the greatsword of artorias; which has the highest AR of all weapons in the game at that level.

    Also the number you're looking for is "I can hit 1300 on a counter-hit". Meaning when I catch someone in a roll or attack and get bonus damage. I use Dusk Crown, Suns firstborn, and the princess ring, with 50 faith for that. 1300 is how much I've hit to other players at the most. My damage range under those circumstances is 780-1300. I usually peg around 1100 on counter hits, but when I'm wanting to feel awesome, I tend to list the highest damage I see on an hourly basis.

    Dark Bead can peg about 800-1000 damage with 16 int, 10 attunement, and the oolacile catalyst. The total requirements to do that would be 0.5 weight, the Dusk Crown, and Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring.

    The Crystal Ring shield can also hit around 800-1000 damage. Generally with elemental weapons. If we took the Zwei for it's 720(?) AR, that's 13 pounds, 24 strength, and 10 dexterity required. So to hit similar numbers with the Crystal Ring Shield requires far more weight to be worn for the same effect, but saves you a ring slot. The only problem with the shield would seem to be that the same weapons that cause it to do obscene damage also were extraordinary for backstabbing.

    Since Dark Bead has similar requirements, shouldn't it be nerfed?

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381197

    There is no point is testing anything at level 713. Really why would you even mention that? If you want to talk about balance in PvP, then you must talk about the common level where we all PvP. If you want to talk about PvE, then there IS NO POINT in talking from level 713; on a side note, in which NG you got 3400 damage?

    And the thing about Dark Bead doing 800-1000 with 16 INT and 10 ATT, against which enemy? The Crystal Ring Shield required far less thing to accomplish. Your comparison of Crystal Ring Shield with a strong weapon doing 1100 damage and Dark Bead with maximum stats and equipment at level 713 doing 3400 damage is ridicolous.

    If you want to compare Dark Bead at low levels VS Crystal Ring Shield then it's more reasonable. The Crystal Ring Shield has far less requirement than the Dark Bead. And Dark Bead has to be acquired in the hardest/strongest area of the game (Chasm of the Abyss). Even if you don't think it's the hardest it's still a very high level area.

    http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6381238
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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:19 pm

    Rynn wrote:Earlier in the thread, someone accused me of making this thread just so I could OBJECT to the arguements.

    That's not true. I've been trying to bring across my points and opinions in far more constructive manners, such as debates. You all (if you visited the PvP section) know how i used to debate things like the Dragonslayer Spear and the Dark Wood Grain Ring. It was more of "I'M ANGRY AND I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT". While I doubt I'll ever get rid of my air of "I'm right and you're wrong", I try my best to curb down on that and listen to other peoples arguments, because I feel like a real ***** when later, regardless of if I'm right or wrong, because often when I've been debating in the past, I am being exactly that (My high rep eludes me to why I have it sometimes.)

    So the purpose of this thread was exactly the same as my backstab thread. To promote a healthy conversation about something I have a strong opinion on.

    I don't think many people think that you're just here to object things. Most people here know you from a long time and know you're not a troll or something, that you're reasonable and that you're someone who one can discussed with.

    As I said in a previous thread you're a well known, erm... eh, girl/woman in these forums. Most people that tell you what you said must be new to the forums. It's just that... lately you've been creating lots of these threads some they may have got the wrong impression.


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:04 pm

    I would love to rip your arguments to shreds Rynn but in this case I agree with you so we're both obviously right big grin.


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    Re: The Crystal Ring Shield was not overpowered Unless Dark Bead is overpowered.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:14 pm



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