Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

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    Who wants another player controlled boss?

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    Conrack
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    Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Conrack on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:41 pm

    So I've been stuck on a Demon's Souls bend for a couple of weeks and lets just say I've been enjoying the old monk boss fight alittle to much (probably watched it 100+ times in the last little while, as Invader) I'm hoping for another boss fight like this where it is a summoned player you have to battle. Now I am aware of how unbalanced this was in Demon's Souls as pretty soon after Demon's release the players with amazing gear began to hunt the newbies, so I suggest a in game mechanic that divides players on Soul level and Gear enhancements. say having +2-3 upgrades past yours only?

    Thoughts and suggestions people?


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Buggy Virus on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:59 pm

    I think restricting other players upgrades in any situation is a little silly.

    It would work better that the covenant that deals with being the boss uses some sort of item like the dragon body stone, that they have to activate and solely use during the fight.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:18 pm

    I love that boss, limiting the guys gear isn't right though, if its too hard turn off Internet and fight the piss easy npc boss silly


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Djem on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:21 pm

    I liked the Old Monk because it was unique. Let it stay that way.
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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by MosquitoPower on Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:58 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I love that boss, limiting the guys gear isn't right though, if its too hard turn off Internet and fight the piss easy npc boss silly

    What if instead of limiting gear, the person playing as the boss was automatically put into a specific set of armor (perhaps specific weapon too)?
    Like the monk "hat" only this time it would be the entire set.

    Maybe as extra incentive there would be different prizes for the player if he beat a human or a NPC version of the boss.

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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Infighter on Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:48 pm

    Something in Old monk style, but not copy of it then Yay. If just copied then Nay


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:54 am

    MosquitoPower wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:I love that boss, limiting the guys gear isn't right though, if its too hard turn off Internet and fight the piss easy npc boss silly

    What if instead of limiting gear, the person playing as the boss was automatically put into a specific set of armor (perhaps specific weapon too)?
    Like the monk "hat" only this time it would be the entire set.

    Maybe as extra incentive there would be different prizes for the player if he beat a human or a NPC version of the boss.


    Good idea. But that would make it unfair for the invader, because while he must use certain equipment, the host could be an all-powerful twink. What about both players have to use the same gear. Something like: before reaching the Sacred City, you must prove you're worthy beating the arena champion (the boss/invader), you must use the sacred equipment, you can choose between: "Holy Pilgrim", "Vinheim Mage", "Eastern Equipment" and "Guardian's Armor". These would represent the 4 main character paths, FTH, INT, DEX and STR respectively. Either character you're development you should find a set that favours more your stats. Playing offline, the opponent (boss) would be a random choice between the four.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:11 am

    what about a player controlled level rather than boss? you enter an area like sens, upon entering you trigger a spell that summons a random invader (or summonable phantom) into a different part of the fortress, where all the trap controls are, now the invader has limits, they can't just spam all the traps, each trap costs 10% hp (actually shortens your health bar, rather than subtracting hp)to use, and after the host reaches a certain point in the level the invader is sent to fight them as the last obstacle before the boss room, so its a choice, spend health on traps or save it for the fight, if the host plays offline the npc invader can use all the traps with impunity and no cost (cause, its an npc, their not the brightest trapmasters.) the reward for the invader upon winning... i have no idea maybe a ring or something.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Grey-Ronin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:10 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:what about a player controlled level rather than boss? you enter an area like sens, upon entering you trigger a spell that summons a random invader (or summonable phantom) into a different part of the fortress, where all the trap controls are, now the invader has limits, they can't just spam all the traps, each trap costs 10% hp (actually shortens your health bar, rather than subtracting hp)to use, and after the host reaches a certain point in the level the invader is sent to fight them as the last obstacle before the boss room, so its a choice, spend health on traps or save it for the fight, if the host plays offline the npc invader can use all the traps with impunity and no cost (cause, its an npc, their not the brightest trapmasters.) the reward for the invader upon winning... i have no idea maybe a ring or something.

    This is similar to an idea that I had after finishing Demon's Souls and choosing the 'bad ending'. I would like to become the boss (i.e. major Demon) of your own world and others could invade, but would have to complete the area to get to you. As the boss of the region you would be able to set where the monsters and traps are located (with some restriction of course so you don't place them all in one room). If you were off line at the time then they could fight a computer controlled version of you. If you were off somewhere else playing (maybe trying to finish another players level) you would get summoned back to your throne room to fight the challenger.

    Would be difficult to pull off, but could be awesome and add a lot of variety and almost constant replay value.
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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by MosquitoPower on Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:14 am

    ChizFreak wrote:
    MosquitoPower wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:I love that boss, limiting the guys gear isn't right though, if its too hard turn off Internet and fight the piss easy npc boss silly

    What if instead of limiting gear, the person playing as the boss was automatically put into a specific set of armor (perhaps specific weapon too)?
    Like the monk "hat" only this time it would be the entire set.

    Maybe as extra incentive there would be different prizes for the player if he beat a human or a NPC version of the boss.


    Good idea. But that would make it unfair for the invader, because while he must use certain equipment, the host could be an all-powerful twink. What about both players have to use the same gear. Something like: before reaching the Sacred City, you must prove you're worthy beating the arena champion (the boss/invader), you must use the sacred equipment, you can choose between: "Holy Pilgrim", "Vinheim Mage", "Eastern Equipment" and "Guardian's Armor". These would represent the 4 main character paths, FTH, INT, DEX and STR respectively. Either character you're development you should find a set that favours more your stats. Playing offline, the opponent (boss) would be a random choice between the four.

    I think that would be pretty neat, a battle of pure PVP skill, not just who had the best gear.

    Spectator options would be nice also. Let new players see some advanced/basic techniques and let pro's jeer at sloppy players.
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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:02 am

    Infighter wrote:Something in Old monk style, but not copy of it then Yay. If just copied then Nay

    Two people made this point, but many of the bosses in demons have copies in dark.

    Tower knight-iron golem
    False idol-pinwheel
    Dragon god-bed of chaos
    Seath- old hero (blindness) and Astraea (having to attack different entity)
    Armour spider-quelaag
    Red dragon on a bridge (not a boss but is pretty funny to me)
    Man eaters- gargoyles
    Stray demon- vanguard
    Storm king- Nito (minions that get in the way)
    Allant- gwyn (allant is easier though, even with parrying to gwyn IMO)

    I'm glad they didn't copy dirty colossus or leechmonger (crap bosses, in more ways than one), though out of all the bosses they ripped off they didn't do flame lurker... What a joke. I'd also say the best bosses though are new on dark. Sif, orny and smough, four kings, priscillas.

    Guess what I'm trying to say is there's nothing new under the sun, and if they have to borrow some inspiration from older souls games, so be it.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Conrack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 pm

    on the topic of upgrade locked equipment, a better way of putting down what I meant was You would not be eligable to be summoned if you gear was too much stronger than the players in the area because lets face it there will be someone out there who will be massivly buffed up before everyone else and who will likely choose it as a great place to fight "newbs".

    A player controlled level is a cool Idea but knocking off health seems abit strange to me (despite the fact I think it would be a good idea to cut down invaders health like Demon's Souls) mostly because the traps of Sens all fealt out of place as the almost all seemed alittle too technologically advanced.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:22 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Infighter wrote:Something in Old monk style, but not copy of it then Yay. If just copied then Nay

    Two people made this point, but many of the bosses in demons have copies in dark.

    Tower knight-iron golem
    False idol-pinwheel
    Dragon god-bed of chaos
    Seath- old hero (blindness) and Astraea (having to attack different entity)
    Armour spider-quelaag
    Red dragon on a bridge (not a boss but is pretty funny to me)
    Man eaters- gargoyles
    Stray demon- vanguard
    Storm king- Nito (minions that get in the way)
    Allant- gwyn (allant is easier though, even with parrying to gwyn IMO)

    I'm glad they didn't copy dirty colossus or leechmonger (crap bosses, in more ways than one), though out of all the bosses they ripped off they didn't do flame lurker... What a joke. I'd also say the best bosses though are new on dark. Sif, orny and smough, four kings, priscillas.

    Guess what I'm trying to say is there's nothing new under the sun, and if they have to borrow some inspiration from older souls games, so be it.

    You can't truly believe Seath is a copy, neither is the Storm King, just because a mechanic is the same doesn't mean it's a copy. Think of the Gargolyes, they are copy, not just because they have same mechanic (2 guys), but because of actual gameplay and the fact they fight very similarly.

    Seath has lots of different attacks and the only thing that resembles Astrea is the AOE slow attack. And that is not enough. Attacking an entity? Who? Garl Vinland is an NPC, and HE is actually the boss. Astrea is just a joke. Her ONLY attack is just there to kill foolish players who spam R1 to a stationary boss, like the breath of the Dragon God once he is down.

    The Storm King is a giant flying guy that shoots several projectiles at you from left and right, hard to block and dodge but only a few of them hit you, he flies around far an close, leaving the area leaving you to fight the smaller guys and coming back to attack you then leaving again. Yeah there are some enemies too in the area (the other smaller flying guys). But oh well, it's just a copy because of that? Hell no.

    I agree with rest though.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:31 pm

    I agree bosses may have been similar from demon to dark souls, but I wouldn't say they are copies.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:31 pm

    I agree seath is more of an inspiration, but the idea behind storm king and Nito is the same. The principle of difficulty and method is the same, fighting multiple enemies at once while aiming for a specific target. The idea is the same, the fact that he's flying makes little difference in my opinion.

    Still though, the point I was making wasn't that all they do is copy, it's the fact that ideas are always recycled in every series, and reusing the old monk pvp boss idea would be interesting to use in another souls game.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:38 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I agree seath is more of an inspiration, but the idea behind storm king and Nito is the same. The principle of difficulty and method is the same, fighting multiple enemies at once while aiming for a specific target. The idea is the same, the fact that he's flying makes little difference in my opinion.

    Still though, the point I was making wasn't that all they do is copy, it's the fact that ideas are always recycled in every series, and reusing the old monk pvp boss idea would be interesting to use in another souls game.

    I completely agree, although we have seen some good new bosses. The DLC bosses in particular.

    Such good bosses. . . every boss should be DLC quality.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:22 pm

    Sadly DLC bosses were all hyper aggressive in contrast to other bosses, variety is needed in the next game I think still even with new ideas.


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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by Djem on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:33 pm

    Other than Seath and Nito, I also don't agree with the Quelaag - Armor Spider comparison. They have nothing in common other than a spider theme.
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    Re: Here to hope for another Old monk style boss

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:00 pm

    they both share the aoe explosion attack and appear in similar locations (first boss of the underground lava area) and actually i find nito more like the old hero, cause they both use swords and stagger about, mostly its just aesthtics that makes me think this... smough is the adjudicator, ornstein is the penetrator, gwyndolin fufills a similar roll to old king doran (hidden boss that protects a super weapon)


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