Difficulty slider for casual players

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    Should there be a difficulty toggle to cater to casual players?

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    MasterofShadows
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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:51 pm

    This is an easy one. No to a difficulty option.

    It eliminates what makes the game special, and that is its uncompromising demand for you to get better, instead of it going easier on you. The feeling you get once you realize that you're "getting it" is so rare in video games today that taking this away from the game will pretty much be like taking away its "Soul", if you will.

    If they decide to implement it, I'm not going to have a heart attack like some here may, but I will feel very sorry for the new guys who opt for the easy difficulty, because I'm certain that they will be seriously missing out.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by ChizFreak on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:17 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:creating this slider would have no benefits than getting more cash.

    That's the only benefit that matters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9paNJJqMn3c

    They should add some other changes too. To make the game more accessible.

    - We all play the same character
    - Simple, straightforward story
    - Invasions replaced with Capture the Flag and Team Deathmatch
    - Journal and maps so no one gets lost
    - Quicktime events
    - Customizable vehicles
    - Love interest

    Based on your posts, you seem to be trolling, sorry but that's my perspective of you.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:23 pm

    I don't think it's necessarily trolling but he does seem to want to turn Dark Souls 2 into The Witcher 2.

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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:24 pm

    Witcher 2? I was thinking a combo of Dragon age 2 and Fable 3.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:28 pm

    I agree chiz, seems like he's interested in trolling.

    Like I said to you in pm coma, I really wouldn't advise posts and threads in the vein I've seen you make recently. The forum can be awesome if you give it the chance without trolling it


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Everynevers on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:30 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:creating this slider would have no benefits than getting more cash.

    That's the only benefit that matters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9paNJJqMn3c

    They should add some other changes too. To make the game more accessible.

    - We all play the same character
    - Simple, straightforward story
    - Invasions replaced with Capture the Flag and Team Deatmatch
    - Journal and maps so no one gets lost
    - Quicktime events
    - Customizable vehicles
    - Love interest

    Gotta be sarcasm or revealing the hand of a troll. I can't see how anyone who likes the Souls games would be remotely serious about most of those ”ideas”. Only one I like is piecing together a map. Yes, actually working for it.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:31 pm

    Same character, straightforward story, quick-time events, love interest, his avatar, etc...

    That's The Witcher 2 in a nutshell.

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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:39 pm

    In fairness, I think qte's could be good, if you've seen ones that are done well you'd get where they'd be good, rather than in stuff like god of war where they just make cutscenes interactive..

    Those of you who've played heavy rain will get what I mean, times when you're struggling for your life, when the event is actually difficult to perform under stress, except in true souls fashion makes it stupidly hard to pull off or make the difference between the event and normal damage slim but crucial.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:45 pm

    But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:51 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

    I don't mean doing it to a boss fight, perhaps some mobs like those with grabs, but that would still be a stretch.

    To me, it would only be really well utilised if they were used in traps or in stuff like mimics. That way there can be more interesting uses of traps mimics, and things that generally you shouldn't get caught in, using them almost as a punishment

    I can see your fears with qte implementation, but it's because most games don't use them right, they should add to the suspense and character immersion, rather than turn bosses into button mashing, most games don't get that.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:59 pm

    Smart thinking, Serious. With Mimics, perhaps QTEs could be a good idea.

    Instead of just being eaten maybe you could have a chance to QTE yourself away from his grasp. The QTE would have to be difficult to execute, though which I'm not sure how they would pull that off.

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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:00 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

    Well, unfortunately, such usage of QTEs (like you mentioned above) is why there is such a negative stigma attached to them. If performed right, they actually feel like part of strategic gameplay, not just a cue for an interactive cutscene. They're supposed to exist to allow players to perform complex actions that can't be implemented with the limited input options that currently exist. As I've said in a previous thread, backstabs are a barebones form of QTEs, in the sense that they require attentiveness, are contextual, and send the avatar into a scripted animation. The only thing missing is the visual cue (press "x" for backstab!). Nobody has a problem with this, because it was something that the player has much more control over. Its not relegated to a one time event in the game. Its something that the player can do anytime he likes.

    Another example that I think does it somewhat well, and I'm not endorsing this game by any means, especially since its not as great a game as its predecessors, is Hitman Absolution. The developers use a QTE system that comes into play whenever the player ends up in hand to hand combat with an NPC. It allows the player to have think quickly in order to dodge and then counter attack his opponent. Animations are scripted, such as you dodging an attack and shoving your elbow into the opponents face, or moving behind the character and throwing him to the floor. The result is, for the most part, satisfying, because you don't feel like the game is taking control out of your hands. While you are controlling every detail of the animation, you are still controlling your character. There are more skilled NPCs in the game that have much faster reaction time, so it helps to increase the challenge.

    The problem with most of today's QTEs is that they completely take the control out of the player's hands and turn into full-blown action cutscenes. While they are fun to look at, there is little choice, strategy, or challenge, so they tend to feel somewhat boring or bland.

    What would be cool is if they added another minor QTE, which allowed players to quickly react to backstab or parry/stab attempts by pressing the necessary button to dodge or knock the weapon aside.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:09 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

    I don't mean doing it to a boss fight, perhaps some mobs like those with grabs, but that would still be a stretch.

    To me, it would only be really well utilised if they were used in traps or in stuff like mimics. That way there can be more interesting uses of traps mimics, and things that generally you shouldn't get caught in, using them almost as a punishment

    I can see your fears with qte implementation, but it's because most games don't use them right, they should add to the suspense and character immersion, rather than turn bosses into button mashing, most games don't get that.

    Another example would be those creatures with the daggers at the beginning of blighttown. You know, the ones that start growling, and then grab you and start eating your face. Some of them actually try to beat you with corpses. I've always wondered why, once they grab me and start chomping, I don't have any way to get out of it, but to simply let them finish their chomping and hope I survive. A QTE which allows me to either press a combination of buttons or repeatedly press a single button to push him off of me would feel more realistic, and require my attention.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:33 pm

    Yeah that's another good usage I could think of, there is actually good potential for qtes, especially for the fact that darks souls could make them purposely difficult, almost as though its a reward for being alert and understanding the game, which in fairness would be a nice addition, another 'little win' that makes up progression in levels and skill, like your first black knight scalp, or getting past the Taurus demon.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by ChizFreak on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:18 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

    I don't mean doing it to a boss fight, perhaps some mobs like those with grabs, but that would still be a stretch.

    To me, it would only be really well utilised if they were used in traps or in stuff like mimics. That way there can be more interesting uses of traps mimics, and things that generally you shouldn't get caught in, using them almost as a punishment

    I can see your fears with qte implementation, but it's because most games don't use them right, they should add to the suspense and character immersion, rather than turn bosses into button mashing, most games don't get that.

    Another example would be those creatures with the daggers at the beginning of blighttown. You know, the ones that start growling, and then grab you and start eating your face. Some of them actually try to beat you with corpses. I've always wondered why, once they grab me and start chomping, I don't have any way to get out of it, but to simply let them finish their chomping and hope I survive. A QTE which allows me to either press a combination of buttons or repeatedly press a single button to push him off of me would feel more realistic, and require my attention.

    You can actually do that buddy, you have to press R1 and L1 repeatedly (or was it R2 and L2?), it reduces most grab attacks' length, thus reducing final damage. But yeah, no visual cue.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by ComaPrison on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:42 pm

    How could you possibly suggest that I'm trolling! I am as sincere as Namco is greedless.

    Additionally, DS2 should have sex scenes with hot npcs as quest rewards.


    Last edited by ComaPrison on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:43 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    MasterofShadows wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But I don't like to be forced into a pre-determined set of attacks (i.e. button presses) in order to deal damage. I like having the liberty of approaching fights by myself, and figuring out bosses by myself, not being told mash this, mash that, dodge this, mash this some more, boss fight over.

    I don't mean doing it to a boss fight, perhaps some mobs like those with grabs, but that would still be a stretch.

    To me, it would only be really well utilised if they were used in traps or in stuff like mimics. That way there can be more interesting uses of traps mimics, and things that generally you shouldn't get caught in, using them almost as a punishment

    I can see your fears with qte implementation, but it's because most games don't use them right, they should add to the suspense and character immersion, rather than turn bosses into button mashing, most games don't get that.

    Another example would be those creatures with the daggers at the beginning of blighttown. You know, the ones that start growling, and then grab you and start eating your face. Some of them actually try to beat you with corpses. I've always wondered why, once they grab me and start chomping, I don't have any way to get out of it, but to simply let them finish their chomping and hope I survive. A QTE which allows me to either press a combination of buttons or repeatedly press a single button to push him off of me would feel more realistic, and require my attention.

    You can actually do that buddy, you have to press R1 and L1 repeatedly (or was it R2 and L2?), it reduces most grab attacks' length, thus reducing final damage. But yeah, no visual cue.

    Well, heck. I wish I knew that earlier! lol It doesn't really matter any more now, since it taught me to just avoid the attack altogether! lol


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:54 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:How could you possibly suggest that I'm trolling! I am as sincere as Namco is greedless.

    No offense but after going through most of your post I have no doubt that you are trolling. What you want is something that has been done before with a lot of games and can't be applied with the Souls games. Also what evidence makes Namco greedy? If it was Capcom I would understand but not Namco.

    That aside MasterofShadows what games do you know that use QTEs right?


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by ComaPrison on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:01 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:How could you possibly suggest that I'm trolling! I am as sincere as Namco is greedless.

    No offense but after going through most of your post I have no doubt that you are trolling. What you want is something that has been done before with a lot of games and can't be applied with the Souls games. Also what evidence makes Namco greedy? If it was Capcom I would understand but not Namco.

    That aside MasterofShadows what games do you know that use QTEs right?

    Indeed. If, as you suggest, Namco is not greedy... then I am sincere. Hence my statement that "I am as sincere as Namco is greedless". Hence, I am not trolling.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:08 pm

    Then....what is with this thread, what should not be in Dark Souls 2? What is your motive?


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:11 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    That aside MasterofShadows what games do you know that use QTEs right?

    There aren't many examples, unfortunately, but did you see my Hitman Absolution mention above? Here's a very brief example.

    Of course, I'm not suggesting that Dark Souls adopt something this complex.

    Keep in mind that the Dark Soul's backstab and parry/stab mechanic is actually a very simple QTE, so this isn't as farfetched as some might think.

    The most important thing to take away from that example is that the player is in much more control than what is seen in most QTEs. Its actually possible to lose fights too.


    Last edited by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:13 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    That aside MasterofShadows what games do you know that use QTEs right?

    There aren't many examples, unfortunately, but did you see my Hitman Absolution mention above? Here's a very brief example.

    Of course, I'm not suggesting that Dark Souls adopt something this complex.

    Keep in mind that the Dark Soul's backstab and parry/stab mechanic is actually a very simple QTE, so this isn't as farfetched as some might think

    Both of you, go play heavy rain. Now.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by MasterofShadows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:16 pm

    Of course! How could I forget Heavy Rain! That's another good example of QTE's that don't turn the game into an interactive movie. There's actual skill involved.


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:18 pm

    Yeah I don't have heavy rain. the Only games that I can think of now is: Castlevania Lords of Shadows which is okay but really hurts you to mess up, maybe the assassian creed series. I can't think of another. Maybe Shadow of the Colossus?


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    Re: Difficulty slider for casual players

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:29 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:Of course! How could I forget Heavy Rain! That's another good example of QTE's that don't turn the game into an interactive movie. There's actual skill involved.

    Funny though considering they call it an interactive drama silly

    There's just good refinement and sense put into heavy rains qte's, most games just whack then in and beg players to stare at their character killing 10 people from you pushing square once :roll:


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