Newtown Slayings

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    dancash1808
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by dancash1808 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:44 am

    Surely a good deal of the guns that come into the hands of criminals were legitimately sold at some point. not including those smuggled into the country. if guns are rarer outside of law enforcement in general surely they are harder for criminals to obtain.
    However regarding mentally ill people it comes down to whether they are psychotic or a psychopath in regards to whether gun control would help, in instances where a psychotic man does something like this it would be likely to help to make guns more difficult to obtain. but it is far from a perfect solution.


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:55 am

    Just because a problem is about mental health does not mean that it isn't also about guns.

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:39 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

    Just a thing to add. Also to my understanding this includes homicide only, not death from warfare, rebels, etc. Things that can only be classified as domestic murder.
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:44 am

    None of those countries are first-world countries. Canada is the only that comes close and their number is less than half of ours.

    Well, we're beating Swaziland at least. Huzzah! Hurrah

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by cloudyeki on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:26 pm

    I'd like to think we'd atleast have the common sense to keep high capacity magazines and Semi-automatic rifles out. At that point it isn't a hunting weapon anymore.


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:16 pm

    cloudyeki wrote:I'd like to think we'd atleast have the common sense to keep high capacity magazines and Semi-automatic rifles out. At that point it isn't a hunting weapon anymore.
    I agree with you about the hunting statement. However, the second amendment was designed for the people to be able to form a well-regulated militia, in order to be able to overthrow an oppressive government. The grey area is where to draw the line.

    This may set a dangerous slope. Regulating guns may proceed to be more and more strict until they are outlawed all together. The danger would be if the government continued to become more and more regulatory to the point of dictatorship. That is what the amendment is designed to prevent.

    I'm not saying I agree with the statement, but that is one point of view and a counter argument for the "guns are only for hunting" philosophy.





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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by cloudyeki on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:50 pm

    Well, I doubt we can overthrow the government now. We already tried (April 26th, 1992).


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:51 pm

    Because a document written in the 18th century is always correct and always applicable to 21st century problems.

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:47 pm

    It is when its purpose is to protect the people from their government.

    When half of americans own guns, oppression becomes a very dangerous thing for the government, because its citizens have the weapons and manpower to force them out.

    As the american american government edges ever closer to socialism, gradually striping freedoms for the "protection" its more important than ever for private citizens to have the ability to fight against the government from outside the system.

    We no longer get to elect the people we want to represent us, instead were forced into making a choice between 2 people the parties choose, neither of whom we want to represent us, because the big parties have the money and connections to companies and organizations to virtually garuntee nobody else has a chance.

    This puts the parties, rather than the people, in power and ensures that they only need contend with eachother, instead of the people, to do whatever they want. This is a sad state of affairs, the second amendment exsists


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:48 pm

    Specifically to ensure the citizens have the power to take back control in situations like this.


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:54 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:We no longer get to elect the people we want to represent us, instead were forced into making a choice between 2 people the parties choose, neither of whom we want to represent us, because the big parties have the money and connections to companies and organizations to virtually garuntee nobody else has a chance.

    Do you know why we have the 2-party system that we have?

    Yup, you guessed it, the Constitution.

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by tinypantha on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:24 pm

    pendant, have you ever shot a gun? have you ever killed a deer? have you ever though "if we give a man a rifle will he shoot us at or next trade? or will he be more likely to shoot us when we ask for the rifle back?" Also the constitution needs to be followed because it may be an old document but in times like ours the antiques are the thing that are constant and un biased normally. Currently if we wrote a constitution it woul consist of: All people will get freedom especially the colored and minorities will be given special attention, and the needy shall be helped. Race will not govern our choices. MinorityRaces shall assisted.

    Do you understand how our time is today? Also pendant this isnt directed to you instead as a rhetorical statement using your name. Sorry ahead of time for the hate i will get.


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:29 pm

    Damn, those needy and minorities.

    I miss the 3/5 Compromise.

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by tinypantha on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:37 pm

    meh we are hypocrites


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:04 am

    I actually think we should make a new constitution, but I'm terrified of what just could go wrong. I think there are elements of the constitution that are really backwards and need updating, at the same time with our current values we could see things take a really bad turn. Separation of Church and state comes to mind and how they could totally screw it up these days, which is odd because religion was a lot more black and white back then.
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:10 am

    What do you think could happen to the separation of church and state?

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:11 am

    Its removal, which would terrify me.
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:15 am

    If we as a human race have learned anything it should be that church needs to be kept far away from government. If not, you get Iran.

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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:17 am

    Well an issue is more so in places like that having people twist a religion to their own needs and abuse it for the sake of having access to its followers, it's more of a government thing.

    I want all of the religious freedoms in the US, but I just never want to live in a country where Religion has extreme control, in the US now we have enough laws influenced by religion, we don't need any more.
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:50 am

    By the way something to mention with people talking about video game violence, technically video games can cause violence. Certain games do cause people to become more aggressive, but not in the way you think.

    It isn't about the level of violence in the game at all, but whether it is multiplayer and how competitive it can seem to the player. One game that actually causes players to get more aggressive is, Mario Kart Wii.

    This really only matters though if ten minutes after getting hit with a blueshell, you somehow end up with a gun in your hand. And it only makes you more aggressive, just meaning you are more likely to insult a person or possibly hit them.

    It's also the same level of aggression seen from people playing competitively in a sport.

    So basically, playing a video game can be just as dangerous for human society as playing soccer.
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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:47 pm

    Well, there are such things as football(soccer) hooligans


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:50 pm

    Tolvo wrote:By the way something to mention with people talking about video game violence, technically video games can cause violence. Certain games do cause people to become more aggressive, but not in the way you think.

    It isn't about the level of violence in the game at all, but whether it is multiplayer and how competitive it can seem to the player. One game that actually causes players to get more aggressive is, Mario Kart Wii.

    This really only matters though if ten minutes after getting hit with a blueshell, you somehow end up with a gun in your hand. And it only makes you more aggressive, just meaning you are more likely to insult a person or possibly hit them.

    It's also the same level of aggression seen from people playing competitively in a sport.

    So basically, playing a video game can be just as dangerous for human society as playing soccer.

    I've seen real violence almost break out over Mario Party before. I think mostly because I tend to see it played in rooms full of drunk people though. Drunk people hate losing.


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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:52 pm

    Interesting point, Tolvo. Where did you get your facts? Not that I doubt it, but when I try to tell people that violent games don't make suicide shooters, I'd like a reference.



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    Re: Newtown Slayings

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:02 pm

    I need to save things like that, I read it about a year ago. I'll try googling a few things again to find it but I doubt I'll find it again.

    Also I should mention their intent was not to notice a link between video games and violence, originally they were trying to figure out if there was a link between aggressive driving and video games.

    EDIT: Haven't found it yet, but I did find this.

    http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04/01/study-driving-games-make-players-more-aggressive-shooting-games#.UNibDm_7K8A

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2007/03/19/tech-racingvideogamesaggression-20070319.html

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