What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Share
    avatar
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:24 pm

    It says the crit is 100, but this is obviously incorrect, since backstabs do much more damage than comparable weapons. I've read posts where people refer to hidden criticals. Is this just an error in the game's weapon description? Has anyone tried to guess-timate what the actual critical is? I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade either the Estoc or the Rapier, and wanted to know which was the better choice.
    avatar
    Sloth9230
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1737
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-12-10
    Age : 24
    Location : In the Forest, casting the spells that make the gankers fall down

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:29 pm

    Maybe cause it thrust damage?


    _________________
    Some people wrestle with their personal demons. I stabbed mine in the back of the head. He was a bleeder....
    C'mon, Everybody! Do The Black Mage!
    PSN-Name: Sloth9230
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:29 pm

    It's all Rapiers, not just the Estoc.

    It's some sort of hidden armor-piercing bonus. What it is ain't exactly clear, but it does exist.

    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:29 pm

    I'm not sure of exact numbers, but I've noticed the same thing. Don't take only my word on this, because I'm nowhere near positive, but I'm pretty sure the Rapier does more critical damage than the Estoc, but the Estoc also does more normal damage, has a longer reach, and I'd argue is more versatile because of it's R2's. If I'm going with a thrusting sword, and my toon isn't INT based, then usually I go with the Estoc, for those reasons.

    It also looks almost identical to the BSS, which means that, if you were so inclined, some fun PvP trickery can be had.


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    FinPeku
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 848
    Reputation : 94
    Join date : 2012-03-23
    Age : 26
    Location : Finland

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by FinPeku on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:31 pm

    Rapier for criticals, estoc if you are going to use it for something else as well. Estoc has better range and damage but rapier has higher criticals.


    _________________
    “Soul of the mind, Key to lifes ether….
    Soul of the lost, Withdrawn from it’s vessel….
    Let strength be grant, So the world might be mended….
    So the world might be mended…”
    avatar
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:35 pm

    Damn...so hard to choose. I've always loved the Estoc's movest and decent reach, but I'm intrigued by the idea of having better crits for using the hornet ring. I'll try out the rapier for a good run and see how I like it.
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:41 pm

    Be sure to post your results. I'd be interested in hearing them.


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    FinPeku
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 848
    Reputation : 94
    Join date : 2012-03-23
    Age : 26
    Location : Finland

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by FinPeku on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:05 pm

    I did some quick testing and here's some numbers:

    Stats 27 str 40 dex. NG Silver knights in anor londo. Hornet ring equipped.

    Backstab damage with +15 estoc: 899
    Backstab damage with +15 rapier: 980

    Whether that difference is significant enough to give up range and more versatile move set, is up to you.


    _________________
    “Soul of the mind, Key to lifes ether….
    Soul of the lost, Withdrawn from it’s vessel….
    Let strength be grant, So the world might be mended….
    So the world might be mended…”

    callipygias
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1776
    Reputation : 93
    Join date : 2012-02-18
    Age : 48
    Location : Oregon, US

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:05 pm

    Like Fin said, rapiers out-crit Estocs. But if you aren't in NG++ or anything the Estoc is still strong enough to 1-shot lots of bad guys. Great reach, too.


    _________________
    XBL: callipygias33
    PSN: callipygias33


    "It's just common sense to NOT go into battle naked." ~ Yarxov

    "Billy - what type of gladiator do you plan on being?" ~ TehInfamousAmos

    "Troll the big drunk guy at the bar. Get punched in the face. Repeat until desire to troll is gone." ~ Forum Pirate
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:09 pm

    FinPeku wrote:I did some quick testing and here's some numbers:

    Stats 27 str 40 dex. NG Silver knights in anor londo. Hornet ring equipped.

    Backstab damage with +15 estoc: 899
    Backstab damage with +15 rapier: 980

    Whether that difference is significant enough to give up range and more versatile move set, is up to you.

    That's good to know. I think I'll at least continue to use the Estoc


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:13 pm

    Velka's Rapier pwns all rapiers, BTW. tongue

    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:15 pm

    All Rapiers do extra critical damage on Backstab and Riposte.

    Rapier is the strongest when it comes to criticals, but it has terrible moveset and reach, compared with the rest. As soon as someone notices you using it, he will know you want to do criticals as it is very bad in normal fight.

    Estoc has great reach, as it is the longest rapier and it's R2 is great if used properly. It has the highest normal damage, but low critical.
    I persoanlly like it the best, as it can still do great critical and is usable in normal fight.

    Ricard's Rapier is similar to normal Rapier, but a bit longer. It's R2 is very fast spam of stabbing attacks, which is very deadly if buffed, but quite easy to parry, or backstab.

    Velka's Rapier is for Int builds, preferably with some Dex too. It's got the second longest reach and very usefull moveset, but thanks to it having split damage, it does the least actuall damage, especially in PvP and can't be buffed. It's still an awesome weapon for casters.

    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:16 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Velka's Rapier pwns all rapiers, BTW. tongue
    It's more situational though. I've found I generally do better damage with the Estoc if I'm not scaling INT


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage

    callipygias
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1776
    Reputation : 93
    Join date : 2012-02-18
    Age : 48
    Location : Oregon, US

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:18 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Velka's Rapier pwns all rapiers, BTW. tongue
    In damage, no. In coolness, hell yes.


    _________________
    XBL: callipygias33
    PSN: callipygias33


    "It's just common sense to NOT go into battle naked." ~ Yarxov

    "Billy - what type of gladiator do you plan on being?" ~ TehInfamousAmos

    "Troll the big drunk guy at the bar. Get punched in the face. Repeat until desire to troll is gone." ~ Forum Pirate
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:52 pm

    Sentiel wrote:All Rapiers do extra critical damage on Backstab and Riposte.

    Rapier is the strongest when it comes to criticals, but it has terrible moveset and reach, compared with the rest. As soon as someone notices you using it, he will know you want to do criticals as it is very bad in normal fight.

    Estoc has great reach, as it is the longest rapier and it's R2 is great if used properly. It has the highest normal damage, but low critical.
    I persoanlly like it the best, as it can still do great critical and is usable in normal fight.

    Ricard's Rapier is similar to normal Rapier, but a bit longer. It's R2 is very fast spam of stabbing attacks, which is very deadly if buffed, but quite easy to parry, or backstab.

    Velka's Rapier is for Int builds, preferably with some Dex too. It's got the second longest reach and very usefull moveset, but thanks to it having split damage, it does the least actuall damage, especially in PvP and can't be buffed. It's still an awesome weapon for casters.

    I'd just like to chime in and say that the rapier's moveset is not terrible, quite good in my opinion. I'm sure you know that all weapons have their potential in the right hands, but I don't personally think the rapier is outclassed in every area by the Estoc besides critical damage. I know people will disagree with me, but I actually think the Estoc is more predictable. When you're only thinking "backstab" when you see a rapier you can be in real trouble if it doesn't come.


    _________________
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:14 pm

    The Letter X wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:All Rapiers do extra critical damage on Backstab and Riposte.

    Rapier is the strongest when it comes to criticals, but it has terrible moveset and reach, compared with the rest. As soon as someone notices you using it, he will know you want to do criticals as it is very bad in normal fight.

    Estoc has great reach, as it is the longest rapier and it's R2 is great if used properly. It has the highest normal damage, but low critical.
    I persoanlly like it the best, as it can still do great critical and is usable in normal fight.

    Ricard's Rapier is similar to normal Rapier, but a bit longer. It's R2 is very fast spam of stabbing attacks, which is very deadly if buffed, but quite easy to parry, or backstab.

    Velka's Rapier is for Int builds, preferably with some Dex too. It's got the second longest reach and very usefull moveset, but thanks to it having split damage, it does the least actuall damage, especially in PvP and can't be buffed. It's still an awesome weapon for casters.

    I'd just like to chime in and say that the rapier's moveset is not terrible, quite good in my opinion. I'm sure you know that all weapons have their potential in the right hands, but I don't personally think the rapier is outclassed in every area by the Estoc besides critical damage. I know people will disagree with me, but I actually think the Estoc is more predictable. When you're only thinking "backstab" when you see a rapier you can be in real trouble if it doesn't come.



    Yeah, I don't think the Rapier has a bad moveset either. I prefer the Estoc, but I've used the Rapier before, and there's nothing wrong with it at all.

    I actually use the Mail Breaker sometimes too for that matter. We forgot that one. I'd be willing to bet it has a higher critical than the Rapier.


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:32 pm

    I think the Mail Breaker's lower AR holds it back, but it is still very close to the rapier in terms of critical damage IIRC.


    _________________
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:34 pm

    The only reason I ever use it is as a surprise secondary equip on heavy characters. It's super fast and does okay turtle damage. Nice to be able to pull out against someone trying to screw with your heavy weapon techniques for some quick cheese damage.


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:43 pm

    Yeah, I think it's one of the best, if not the best, backup weapon for PvP.


    _________________
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:50 pm

    ^ There's nothing quite like killing an annoying foe with a little Mail Breaker poke either. It's such an unassuming little weapon.


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:22 am

    Usually, when I see Rapier, normal one, or Mail Breaker (that's a mega rare weapon in PvP) I treat that as a big sign, saying "imma gonna bs the :dung: out of ya pal".

    So I'll take out Shotel, so you can't turtle with it, but I'm not aggresive with it, if you don't turtle I won't use it (got Black Flame in case someone thinks he can parry) and I watch my left side (the usuall bs way) and bs my opponent first.

    I know bs with Shotel is pathetic, but I don't do it to kill him, but to protect myself from his bs. I'll keep this up, until he hides the Rapier, or dies.

    I treat other rapiers the same way, but I'm not as cautious about bs as with these two.


    avatar
    Halicarnassis
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 718
    Reputation : 15
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 42
    Location : Dark EngeLando!

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Halicarnassis on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:18 am

    For the additional weight the Estoc brings with it I always choose the rapier or Ricards instead. Most of my PVP builds are low endurance so eeking out the right weight is imperative for fast rolling.

    Saying that, I've been looking into armour defences and its astounding how many heavy and medium sets carry huge defences to slashing weapons! I've begun equipping the Leo and Hornets ring with thrust weapons only as pierce damage seems less defended against overall. The Lucerne is fast becoming my BFF; given its reach, damage and thrust ability!
    Unfortunately I can't post any stats till the new year guys sorry


    _________________
    DMB vs SLB.. results here -  bit.ly 153iRJV
    PSN ID: Halicarnassis Twitter: @Halicarnassis
    Tweets by @Halicarnassis

    LunarFog wrote:"The Moon Pit" seems like someplace naughty I would go to see buff men swinging their junk.
    avatar
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:23 am

    FinPeku wrote:I did some quick testing and here's some numbers:

    Stats 27 str 40 dex. NG Silver knights in anor londo. Hornet ring equipped.

    Backstab damage with +15 estoc: 899
    Backstab damage with +15 rapier: 980

    Whether that difference is significant enough to give up range and more versatile move set, is up to you.

    That seems close to the difference I was seeing (although I was using elemental paths, so the differences probably depended on enemy resistances). I'd be using this mostly for PvE situations, so I'm not worried about it being predictable or anything. I'm going to try one as a Chaos weapon and see how it does.
    avatar
    PlasticandRage
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5280
    Reputation : 123
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Age : 34
    Location : New York

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:44 pm

    Sentiel wrote:Usually, when I see Rapier, normal one, or Mail Breaker (that's a mega rare weapon in PvP) I treat that as a big sign, saying "imma gonna bs the out of ya pal".

    So I'll take out Shotel, so you can't turtle with it, but I'm not aggresive with it, if you don't turtle I won't use it (got Black Flame in case someone thinks he can parry) and I watch my left side (the usuall bs way) and bs my opponent first.

    I know bs with Shotel is pathetic, but I don't do it to kill him, but to protect myself from his bs. I'll keep this up, until he hides the Rapier, or dies.

    I treat other rapiers the same way, but I'm not as cautious about bs as with these two.

    I generally carry shotels in my inventory unequipped with all toons, just like bows. I'm a big advocate of the shotel. Rips turtles to pieces.


    _________________
    All great men have mustaches.

    TIGER UPPERCUT!

    PSN: PlasticAndRage

    Sponsored content

    Re: What's the story on the hidden critical for the Estoc?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:26 pm