What do backstabs really add to the game?

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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:37 pm

    It wasn't lag, I was still in the air and they were bellow me. They literally fished me out of the air. While I do applaud their timing, it still looked completely ridiculous.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sevans on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:25 pm

    The worst part about dead angles, for me, is how they look. They don't make sense, but they are useful and have dead-angled their way into the PvP metagame. The ideas presented to deal with turtles are all well and dandy, but have some huge flaws making them... very sub-optimal.

    I find myself in the same boat as Tolvo -- I'd hate to see dead angles go unless they implemented another 'real' mechanic to replace their effect. A grapple would be cool, make it do decent damage and, hell, make it breakable -- something like a Tekken throw where you have 14 frames to break it.

    If the developers answer was to add more weapons that can hit around shields, I suppose I'd stomach that, 'cause I really don't like being shoehorned into using a Shotel.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:35 pm

    Not to mention there is a tactic turtles will use that basically means they win the fight if there is lag.

    Hide behind the shield with something like an UGS. When the person goes to swing their shoetel, hit them. You'll out damage them. Or kick the person while they try to use their shoetel, then hit. The Shoetel R2 also leaves you open to a roll backstab, so there is that problem.

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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:52 pm

    Well, it was the most effective Fighting Tactic in the Medieval time to have a Shield and a Spear and thrust the Spear while hiding behind the Shield .
    So it makes sense that it is the most effective Tactic in this Game too .

    But yeah i would like to see some sort of Grabbing mechanic while i dont really care if Dead Angles go or stay .
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:32 pm

    Bring back the MLGS from DeS. That taught both turtles and Warding users a lesson.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:41 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Bring back the MLGS from DeS. That taught both turtles and Warding users a lesson.

    Yeah !
    I love the MLGS from DeS it looked great and did moderate Damage while having this Special effect (ignoring Shields) !
    Sadly it hadnt much use in Demons PVP since nobody ever blocked silly
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:43 pm

    I had it in my arsenal for when I saw turtlers and people who used Warding.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:48 pm

    There was another Weapon with the same Effect .
    Selen Vinlands Blind .
    I cant remember its moveset though, i think it had the Falchion moveset .

    Also did Warding made you more Vulnerable to Magic ? I think it did .
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:51 pm

    Ahhh Demon's. I remember frolicking trough entire levels and rewarding invaders with a banishment once they finally caught me. Those were the days.

    And you are correct Marino, it was a curved sword.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:00 pm

    There is a point where you have to remember this is a game, and a game with multiplayer. Thus, balance is important.

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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:10 pm

    Tolvo wrote:There is a point where you have to remember this is a game, and a game with multiplayer. Thus, balance is important.

    Whuzah-a this is a Game ?

    Yes Balance is important but we have to keep in mind that the Souls Series also has a big PVE part .
    And the fact that PVE and PVP are so interweaved makes it a pain in the a$$ to balance things for both PVE and PVP .

    Its like someone tries to date two People at once which leads to a dissaponting experience for everyone involved
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:11 pm

    Warding blocked physical attacks. But, the MLGS did pure magic damage, so Warding did nothing against it.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:20 pm

    You know what Backstabs does? It gives me the feeling that I just
    DROPPED THE SOAP WHEN I BOW TO AN INVADER.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:20 pm

    And turtles are balanced... by time.

    Marino is right, Shield and Spear are extremely effective. Once you get a good shield and spear, the whole game becomes rather easy... if boring and time consuming.

    It's the same for PVP. There aren't really many more ways to nerf turtlers. You could make spears weaker but then it just takes them longer to kill you. make the stamina drain even higher? Same result.

    Shield and spear are simply extremely effective, so is Fox in Super-Smash Bros, and Arceus in Pokemon. The people who play those games tend to assign "tiers" in order to create the illusion of a balanced game, but that doesn't make the games themselves balanced. Flareon as a pokemon sucks, plain and simple.

    You can't really do that with Dark Souls, not without telling people how to play their game.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:25 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:22 pm

    Jester's Tears wrote:You know what Backstabs does? It gives me the feeling that I just
    DROPPED THE SOAP WHEN I BOW TO AN INVADER.

    Hahaha Jester .
    Youre getting close to Positive Rep if you keep this up lol!
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:24 pm

    Marino. wrote:
    Jester's Tears wrote:You know what Backstabs does? It gives me the feeling that I just
    DROPPED THE SOAP WHEN I BOW TO AN INVADER.

    Hahaha Jester .
    Youre getting close to Positive Rep if you keep this up lol!

    I'm a Jester. I either Piss you off Or make you Piss yourself Laughing. Well What is it


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:26 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:And turtles are balanced... by time.

    Marino is right, Shield and Spear are extremely effective. Once you get a good shield and spear, the whole game becomes rather easy... if boring and time consuming.

    It's the same for PVP. There aren't really many more ways to nerf turtlers. You could make spears weaker but then it just takes them longer to kill you. make the stamina drain even higher? Same result.

    They already increased the Stamina drain for Poking behind a Shield in the DLC/Patch happy

    I think a Grabbing mechanic would kind of counter it .
    Heres another Idea !
    Instead of being hard to Parry why not actually make the description true and make them easier to Parry ?


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:32 pm

    I know, that's why i said "even higher" happy

    My point is that I don't want From to try and "balance" the game, they tend to... fail (I'm looking at you crystal ring shield) :evil:

    I really like the idea of grabbing their shield and Idk, maybe a headbutt or a pseudo-riposte? Maybe even trip them and stab them while they're on the ground, that would be cool.

    They'd be easy to use too, just hit R1 and L1 at the same time.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:38 pm

    I'd rather they attempt to fix problems for future games, as opposed to leaving in flaws in the design.

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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:41 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:I know, that's why i said "even higher" happy

    My point is that I don't want from to try and "balance" the game, they tend to... fail (I'm looking at you crystal ring shield) :evil:

    I really like the idea of grabbing their shield and Idk, maybe a headbutt or a pseudo-riposte? Maybe even trip them and stab them while they're on the ground, that would be cool.

    They'd be easy to use too, just hit R1 and L1 at the same time.
    Oh, sorry i overread that :roll:

    Or perhaps make the Kick more Powerfull ?
    So that it takes two kicks to break the Greatshield Guard .

    But nyeh, it doesnt matter what From does. The Community will find something else to whine about and scream "NERF!"
    DWGR OP ? It got nerfed . Now its Turtles that are OP .

    Shrug
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:46 pm

    Marino. wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:I know, that's why i said "even higher" happy

    My point is that I don't want from to try and "balance" the game, they tend to... fail (I'm looking at you crystal ring shield) :evil:

    I really like the idea of grabbing their shield and Idk, maybe a headbutt or a pseudo-riposte? Maybe even trip them and stab them while they're on the ground, that would be cool.

    They'd be easy to use too, just hit R1 and L1 at the same time.
    Oh, sorry i overread that :roll:

    Or perhaps make the Kick more Powerfull ?
    So that it takes two kicks to break the Greatshield Guard .

    But nyeh, it doesnt matter what From does. The Community will find something else to whine about and scream "NERF!"
    DWGR OP ? It got nerfed . Now its Turtles that are OP .

    Shrug

    Dragon Kick should break Guards MUCH FASTER. Why? Well:
    #1: The Dragon form has bonus fist damage. Y U NO GIVE BONUS FEET DAMAGE!?

    #2: Dragons like Kung Fu Experts when they kick...Kung Fu Fire breathing Dragons...SOOOO CUTTEEEEEE


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:47 pm

    Haha. Even if they made it so that everything in the game only did 1 point of damage, Shield and spear would still be considered OP.

    Simply put, they're really that damn effective.

    Edit: Kicking with the Orange ring should degrade shields lol!

    Edit2: Man, I really derailed this thread... whoops


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:52 pm; edited 3 times in total


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:49 pm

    Jester's Tears wrote:
    Marino. wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:I know, that's why i said "even higher" happy

    My point is that I don't want from to try and "balance" the game, they tend to... fail (I'm looking at you crystal ring shield) :evil:

    I really like the idea of grabbing their shield and Idk, maybe a headbutt or a pseudo-riposte? Maybe even trip them and stab them while they're on the ground, that would be cool.

    They'd be easy to use too, just hit R1 and L1 at the same time.
    Oh, sorry i overread that :roll:

    Or perhaps make the Kick more Powerfull ?
    So that it takes two kicks to break the Greatshield Guard .

    But nyeh, it doesnt matter what From does. The Community will find something else to whine about and scream "NERF!"
    DWGR OP ? It got nerfed . Now its Turtles that are OP .

    Shrug

    Dragon Kick should break Guards MUCH FASTER. Why? Well:
    #1: The Dragon form has bonus fist damage. Y U NO GIVE BONUS FEET DAMAGE!?

    #2: Dragons like Kung Fu Experts when they kick...Kung Fu Fire breathing Dragons...SOOOO CUTTEEEEEE

    This actually sound like a good Idea .
    If it werent for the fact that you could just use the Body stone and "Roar" their Shield away winking
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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:52 pm

    Marino. wrote:
    Jester's Tears wrote:
    Marino. wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:I know, that's why i said "even higher" happy

    My point is that I don't want from to try and "balance" the game, they tend to... fail (I'm looking at you crystal ring shield) :evil:

    I really like the idea of grabbing their shield and Idk, maybe a headbutt or a pseudo-riposte? Maybe even trip them and stab them while they're on the ground, that would be cool.

    They'd be easy to use too, just hit R1 and L1 at the same time.
    Oh, sorry i overread that :roll:

    Or perhaps make the Kick more Powerfull ?
    So that it takes two kicks to break the Greatshield Guard .

    But nyeh, it doesnt matter what From does. The Community will find something else to whine about and scream "NERF!"
    DWGR OP ? It got nerfed . Now its Turtles that are OP .

    Shrug

    Dragon Kick should break Guards MUCH FASTER. Why? Well:
    #1: The Dragon form has bonus fist damage. Y U NO GIVE BONUS FEET DAMAGE!?

    #2: Dragons like Kung Fu Experts when they kick...Kung Fu Fire breathing Dragons...SOOOO CUTTEEEEEE

    This actually sound like a good Idea .
    If it werent for the fact that you could just use the Body stone and "Roar" their Shield away winking

    We replace the Roar with A Cute sound that Leaves the enemy open to Cute Kung Fu kicks of Ultimate CUTENESS.


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    Re: What do backstabs really add to the game?

    Post by Marino. on Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:00 am

    Jester's Tears wrote:
    We replace the Roar with A Cute sound that Leaves the enemy open to Cute Kung Fu kicks of Ultimate CUTENESS.

    >Implying that the current Dragon is not cute

    I stop now . time to get on Topic again happy .

    So about Backstabs i think the main Problem is the Ridiculous Damage you can Achieve with it .
    Just nerf the Damage so that it does just a little more Damage than the regular Attack and make the Hitbox smaller .

    It would only improve the Gameplay for everyone imho . happy

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