Meaning Behind Accessibility

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    Argetlam350
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    Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Argetlam350 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:18 pm

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/12/17/dark-souls-ii-director-on-making-the-sequel-more-accessible.aspx?PageIndex=2&CommentPosted=true#commentmessage



    The new director explained a bit deeper on what he means by more accessibility. What I get from it is that more then likely the tutorial will be more explanatory and hold the players hand through that part. As well as perhaps a lot more of the story this game being presented to the player. Doesn't sound like anything that will ruin the experience of the gameplay, thus far.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:31 pm

    Oh good. That means I can kill people casually.

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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:36 pm

    Lol. If you can't figure it out, you don't deserve to. The challenge is in learning not doing, the challenge is gone if things are explained for you.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by DemonOfFate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:03 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Lol. If you can't figure it out, you don't deserve to. The challenge is in learning not doing, the challenge is gone if things are explained for you.

    Now that's not entirely true a game telling you that you can parry doesn't mean it makes landing a parry easier. Also is not knowing what poise is really a challenge? no it's more of a annoyance now if you are like me you saw the explanation button and knew what it did right when you started but for people less observant.. But now i do agree i don't want darksouls 2 yelling in your face about everything but i don't think they will do that.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by MasterofShadows on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:15 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Lol. If you can't figure it out, you don't deserve to. The challenge is in learning not doing, the challenge is gone if things are explained for you.

    There is no challenge in leaving the game and looking up the info on a wiki. Good game design makes the application of the information a challenge.

    A person who is skilled at something is someone who has become very good at their ability to apply the knowledge well.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:24 pm

    Thats not dks. Having played demons, dark was a breaze where demons was a b*tch and a half. Call it what you will, but the soul series isn't hard once you know whats going on, unlike say devil may cry 3 on hard+, which is always hard.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by DemonOfFate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:33 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats not dks. Having played demons, dark was a breaze where demons was a b*tch and a half. Call it what you will, but the soul series isn't hard once you know whats going on, unlike say devil may cry 3 on hard+, which is always hard.
    Maybe i missed something but i don't think anyone said darksouls is hard...I mean once you know what to do in any game is it really hard?


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:50 pm

    Yes. If the challenge is in doing, like in super meat boy.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by DemonOfFate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:12 pm

    But in general we all agree that most games once you beat it becomes a breeze. and even then Super meat boy is easiER when you have beat it.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Seignar on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:23 pm

    Forum, what's wrong with you?
    You as a player have the right to know all your basics. It's not like they'll just go in and say "The poise breakpoint for blah is yah". No they are going to say "Poise is for resisting stagger", then you as the player can decide whether or not to research the breakpoints.

    You act as if they are going to give us a tutorial on how to fight every single enemy and boss in this game.

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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by tofucactaur on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:10 pm

    I do think that it would not necessarily be a bad thing to have ingame explanations of some of the game mechanics.... explanations of things like poise, covenants, etc will not detract from the experience. If a new player is not actively searching online/a part of the community when they begin Dark Souls, it can be downright hostile. I KNOW that people are already going to say 'yes, its supposed to be hostile', however, I think that having a somewhat firmer understanding of the games mechanics is not going to detract from the intended hostility, ie what the games designers had in mind. The game is still hard even with a basic understanding of mechanics. It should be. The difficulty should not stem from wondering why the HELL you get staggered everytime you get hit, or wondering why the game was advertised as you being able to summon help, and wondering why you cant see any signs cos you don't know that you have to be in living mode to see them. I think the confusion repels allot of players that could potentially improve upon the already great community. Heck, having more people play would only make things better. I know I am not having fun when I invade someone who is obviously a noob. How much fun is it fighting someone with 0 poise and a drake sword at lvl 60+? It can obviously detract from the experience for everybody if elements of core game mechanics are kept to much of a mystery from the player. I think an open mind about the directors ideas with regards to accessibility is the best for now. It could be good, or bad, dependant on how far they take it.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:49 am

    You cab get those description in the stats screen by pressing select, and I'm pretty sure the stats screen even tells you that.

    As a general rule, gamers are usually simple enough that simply pressing every button a couple times and exploring the menu will get you the basics, the soul series is no exception. You might miss parries, maybe but thats not really a basic technique so it shouldn't be explained.

    I'm so sick of the hour of irritating pandering at the beginning of every game that its not even funny.

    The basic information is all there, if you're to lazy to find it then play a different game.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Juutas on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:55 am

    If the game is good I don't care how things are teached to us.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by hageshisa on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:48 pm

    Totally agree with you Forum!

    And to be honest, for my first 50-100h of DkS I didnt even know there was auto-lock.But most things in the game are logic even if its hard to get it the first time.

    I really hope that you could skip tutorial if it's something major, but I hope he'll do like with monster hunter: Run to the training area if you dont get it. I hate to get forced to do the same things over and over again for choosing "new game"-option in games


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by DemonOfFate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:15 pm

    Fourm first off you are acting like everyone who is not sharing the same opinion as you want them to completely dumb-down darksouls no that's not what any darksouls fan wants what we are talking about is maybe the game to tell us how to summon phantoms hell maybe it could just hint at you how to summon phantoms but i don't think darksouls does that (Correct me if i am wrong)


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:27 pm

    Reading the last part of the article somewhat puts me at ease.

    Shibuya wants to keep the difficulty and the mytery elements even if he is going to make them more clear. To me that only really suggests more explainations and links within those item explainations....or maybe some dialogues that directly allude to people and events.

    Not all that bad IMO.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:29 pm

    It doesn't tell you that you have to be human, but they could simply add a status indicator (ie hollow or human) in the stats screen and explain it like they do the other stats instead of creating a tutorial.

    As for the cov system, i believe its deliberately vauge to reflect the secretive nature of the covs. One isn't simply told how to find the group of assassins that stalk the land. Conversly, the sunbros/white/hunters are more forward about recruiting


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:31 pm

    What I did like about the covs things is he said you will be rewarded for joining the various factions.

    Thats great. Some of the DKS covs werent even worth joining because they didnt do anything WoW and Princess Guard, were underwhelming Gravelords, or were too beneficial to pass up DM or DW etc.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by DemonOfFate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:39 pm

    Oh fourm don't get me wrong i don't want them to touch the secret of the Covs. i mean one does not simply join the darkwraiths. what i like is that they point to you that there is something in the abyss as it is the house of the four kings bosses you need to beat and you can fight them before you get the lordvessel which hints at the being something of secret down there. (KEEP THIS FROM)


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:00 pm

    Dms are just as secrative. Optional 2 optional areas (the room with the ring and the room with the statue) are necessary to join and the only hint is their name in the indictment description. I want to learn that myself, why should how to parry (just an example) be any different.

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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:14 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    As a general rule, gamers are usually simple enough that simply pressing every button a couple times and exploring the menu will get you the basics, the soul series is no exception. You might miss parries, maybe but that's not really a basic technique so it shouldn't be explained.
    So the fact that its more of an advanced technique means that it "shouldn't be explained". Comeon, Bro, you know that doesn't follow.

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    I'm so sick of the hour of irritating pandering at the beginning of every game that its not even funny.

    I can understand that. As someone who plays games on a regular basis, I find myself mainly just rushing through those parts. However, I don't mind them because I know that it does help some people who are not familiar with that type of game (like the shooting range at the beginning of COD4: Modern Warfare.). Instead of just "letting them figure it out on their own", it eases them into the game and teaches them how its meant to be played. Not all players are as committed as you and me, and the sooner we accept that, the better.

    In my opinion, games should give players the basics, but have enough depth for them to discover as they explore those basics. The real fun is not in learning the basics, its in learning how deep those basic mechanics go, and learning it all as you play. In my opinion, some of the things that they marketed as their main features were not explained well, such as PVP, Coop matching, covenants, and others. Yeah, I eventually found those things out, but not everyone thinks its cool to have to leave your game to go ask someone else.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Juutas on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:18 pm

    Umm....Dark Souls explained parry in the tutorial...


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:29 pm

    Oh yeah. The asylum. Forgot thats real. It takes 5 minutes. Thats all the tutorial it needs. (I'd prefer the option to skip that too) Here's the Basic actions, go! is a great approach for most games imo.

    The only games I'd do it differently for are games like street fighterXtekken where there are a good 20 mechanics necessary to even finish the game on higher difficulties.


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by Juutas on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:34 pm

    I think Undead Asylum was fine. It had place in the lore and the area is kinda cool + the messages could be skipped (never even read all of them big grin).


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    Re: Meaning Behind Accessibility

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:45 pm

    While I don't want something that's unreasonably long, I'm cool with something that's about a half hour to 45 minutes. I just want the freedom to be able to skip it if I want.

    To be honest, the first time I play, I will want to play through that part for two reasons:

    1. See how well its actually done, and if it actually helps players, or was a waste of resources,
    2. It will be a quick way to introduce me to any new features that were not in any of the previous games.

    But no, don't explain to me all of the different ways that I can apply a particular mechanic. Just give me the basic understanding of it, and let me explore it myself. That's what depth is about, and depth is what's fun.

    Perhaps it can be a place that I can come back to whenever I want to test out a new build, weapon, or armor set.


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