Griefers are the good guys

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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:10 am

    LunarFog wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:Yeah sure, go out of your way to make new players lives miserable. Then when they all go return their copies to Gamestop, do you know what you're going to get? Nothing. They're not going to make the next game harder, they're not gonna make a next game at all.

    So if you enjoy picking on new players for $hits and giggles, then kudo's to you. But it's people like you who give the Dark Soul's community a bad name.
    This, +1. You could make the game harder, you could also damage it so badly the series will die due to a lack of player base. Admittedly the BB glitch in 1 didn't do that, but at some point griefing will stop the player base from growing.

    Am I really such a bad person if I'd rather see Dark Souls end on a good note than continue to sell out and do whatever they can to make money until the game becomes a crappy shell of it's former self. Think about the lore in Dark Souls itself. The fire is going to die out eventually, there's no point in sacrificing everything to keep it going for a little while longer.
    I'd rather see the game die on its own or become a sell out than watch the players who are meant to love it destroy it.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:11 am

    I do actually agree with you Lunar with the whole idea of griefing as being acceptable in Dark Soul's PVP. The game isn't supposed to have a completely separate section just for PVP, PVP and PVE are supposed to be mixed.

    The PVP aspect is there to make the game harder for players by having other players invade the game. A whole new level of difficulty is added to the game and it's there to make the game harder for other players, but do not mistake that these invaders are not the "good guys" or the "bad guys" they're just players playing another part of the game.

    Also Sloth I agree with you when it comes to players with OP equipment invading low level new players. That's not making the game more difficult it's just turning the new players off. It's why I've always wanted to see a system in which players wouldn't be invaded until they reach level 35. (As that is normally when players are able to ring both bells) Then they have an idea of how to play since they have probably already been invaded by Maneater Mildred and Knight Kirk.

    I give you credit if you want to get the end game equipment at a low level, I've done it too and it's a lot of fun. Regardless that is a test to your own skills at PVE and you need to realize that players at that level are not as skilled as you are.

    @Mr_no_face Yes it's hardcore gaming and I'm glad you're a big hardcore gamer now too, but you need to understand that some of these players are new to the hardcore world of gaming to begin with. Having them go up against these OP players is going to do nothing more than turn them off to hardcore gaming and the Souls Series. I don't really think anyone wants that.




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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:11 am

    MR.NoFace: All I'm saying is that the more low level noobs he scares away from the game, the less high level noobs there's gonna be for me later. Gankers gotta come from somewhere right?


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:22 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Juutas on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:16 am

    A noble thought of adding difficulty, but it fails because griefing someone with OP gear when they have just started the game is not challenging the player, it's just making him die because let's be honest now: with unupgraded weapons and armor and low level you can't compete against someone who pretty much kills you with one regular hit.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:20 am

    My thoughts exactly, I've only been able to kill one player with OP armor when I was still at the beginning cleric set with all my items completely unupgraded. It was quite a fight and I'll be honest I did close to nothing as far as damage goes. I was only able to pull it off because I was able to backstab the invader right off of edge of the Undead Burg.

    No new player should be subjected the half and hour I put into getting rid of that invader.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:23 am

    GrinTwist: I liked the way Demon's handeled it. You had to beat at least the first level on your own, no phantoms, no invaders, and only at half health. Not just some half-assed tutorial. In Dark souls you could summon as soon as you got to the Burg, you didn't even have to reach Solaire to do it.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:31 am

    Again it's why the aspect of PVP both in the sense of invading and co-oping needs to be limited until you are finally able to reach SL 35 or until you're finally able to reach the second bell.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:21 am

    Acarnatia: I see what you meant now, you meant if this is the black mage from 8-bit theater. Indeed he is, I thought there were some secret strips I never read or something.

    So which Avatar do you prefer, the one from before or this one with kalameet? lol

    Grintwist: the second one is probably better, the first one is too harsh on people who do low level runs


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 am

    I like the second one better, since it has a reference to Dark Souls.

    Now that I think of it more, you're right the PVP elements of the game shouldn't blend with the PVE elements until the second bell.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:28 am

    so, if i invade with 99 humanity and +5 weapons in the burg at lvl 4, wearing full stone armor with havels and the fap ring, what does that qualify as? "invading"or "griefing"? im practically untouchable and almost everything (gotta farm each area for its 10 liquid humanity then farm the rats for the 99 humanity) can be obtained within 20 minutes of play


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by mr_no_face on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:40 am

    ~No new player should be subjected to blah blah blah blah

    The children in Africa shouldn't be subjected to maleria aides and all the other terrible illnesses that are over seas.

    It's a video game people if they REALLY wanna play it then they will it's as simple as that. The truly determined kids who love the game will get over the fact that douche bag kids keep invading. I did , they will too. if not then i suggest playing offline to a better grasp on it.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:42 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:so, if i invade with 99 humanity and +5 weapons in the burg at lvl 4, wearing full stone armor with havels and the fap ring, what does that qualify as? "invading"or "griefing"? im practically untouchable and almost everything (gotta farm each area for its 10 liquid humanity then farm the rats for the 99 humanity) can be obtained within 20 minutes of play
    I would say rather than try to put up examples like that using common sense is better. If you know your gear is OP and a new player would have no chance its probably griefing.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Mr. Tart on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:40 am

    I did not see that coming. :|


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:02 pm

    I am VERY familiar with TV Tropes (awesome site!) and I've read ALL of 8-Bit Theatre.
    And I find it amusing that everyone is arguing so much about this; of course there's going to be griefers. What multiplayer game doesn't? We should all already know yelling at them won't convince them to stop.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:16 pm

    Juutas wrote:A noble thought of adding difficulty, but it fails because griefing someone with OP gear when they have just started the game is not challenging the player, it's just making him die because let's be honest now: with unupgraded weapons and armor and low level you can't compete against someone who pretty much kills you with one regular hit.

    Making a lowlevel die is my point. Death is a main trait of Dark Souls so if Dark Souls II becomes easier then there will be a lack of deaths, and I'll be there to mae up for the lack of death.

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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:19 pm

    Complains about game becoming easier, goes out looking for easy kills.

    Totally makes sense, do you even lift?


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:22 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Complains about game becoming easier, goes out looking for easy kills.

    Totally makes sense, do you even lift?
    Can't even follow a simple train of thought, can you? Well there's always some of those people floating around.

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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:26 pm

    Oh no, I get you. You're saying that you're doing it in order to give new players a proper introduction to the Soul's series, but what you're really doing is showing them the worst the community has to offer.

    The Soul's series are supposed to be hard but fair, that was one of the big changes from Demon's. They went ahead and removed most of the traps because they realized that most of them were unfair. You going around with +5 lightning weapon and fully upgraded armor killing noobs, is counterproductive to what the games original creators wanted.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by carlucio on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:36 pm

    I never grief but i don't think it is bad for the game, i think it helps to make the game more alive, dangerous, the comunity becomes more complex.
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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Madara on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:54 pm

    We shall make a clan call the Spirits of the Dark Soul in memory of it predecessor and just destroy everything in Dark Souls 2.
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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:27 pm

    screw it all this worry over dks2 being less is getting annoying im just going to leave this area alone for the 2 years before it comes out then do whatever i feel like when its finally here.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:34 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    The Soul's series are supposed to be hard but fair

    hard

    They're going to be making the game easier. Which is why players might have to artificially make the game harder. Taking one step back and making it hard and unfair would be better than having it blown completely off course and being easy.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:34 pm

    Madara wrote:We shall make a clan call the Spirits of the Dark Soul in memory of it predecessor and just destroy everything in Dark Souls 2.

    You should join the covenant Bedlam. I already do that

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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:37 pm

    LunarFog wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    The Soul's series are supposed to be hard but fair



    "They're going to be making the game easier.


    How about you actually put your psychic pwers to good use and tell me if the world is gonna end on the 21st, cause if it is then I see no point in arguing this further.


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    Re: Griefers are the good guys

    Post by Onion Knight on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:01 pm

    Artificial difficulty is already thrown around as a criticism for the game, doing this would actually give them credible grounds for this criticism.
    Even easier difficultly would be preferable to a completely unfair game which is out to screw the player over without actually teaching anything.
    Also where is the actual proof of easy difficulty? 'More accessible' can mean a whole bunch of features other than difficulty.
    This whole section is full of paranoia, wild speculation and devoid of information.


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