GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

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    Should they give it back to Miyazaki?

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    ComaPrison
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:09 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:Sure, I may be trolling, but deep down you're afraid that what I predict will really come to pass. I'm afraid too 🇳🇴

    It wouldn't exactly be new for a great thing to be destroyed by greed, the profit motive, and mainstreaming. I'm just trying to lower the hell out of all of our expectations now so we won't be as disappointed when we find out that half of those depressing predictions turn out to be correct.

    Of course, its a basic psychological survival technique, designed to protect oneself from potential emotional harm. Just say that it will suck, and the disappointment won't hit you so hard, because you've already prepared yourself emotionally. My only problem with this is that it tends to cause people to resort to irrational arguments to justify it, like making assumptions that have little to no basis, and acting as if there is an actual basis.

    DaS2 is going to f-ing suuuuuuuuuuuck! Definitely not preordering. I'm going to wait to see thorough video reviews and "let's play" or livestreams before I decide whether to buy it or not. As it is, one of my favorite franchises has already been ruined recently. I gave them the benefit of the doubt with a pre-order, and it turned out to have been a huge mistake.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by CaptanSpudsy on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:14 pm

    ComaPrison wrote: I gave them the benefit of the doubt with a pre-order, and it turned out to have been a huge mistake.

    You can cancel pre-orders.


    Anywho, I say if DkS II isn't that great, bring Miazaki back. I willing to give the new guy a chance. But only one.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:17 pm

    CaptanSpudsy wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote: I gave them the benefit of the doubt with a pre-order, and it turned out to have been a huge mistake.

    You can cancel pre-orders.


    Anywho, I say if DkS II isn't that great, bring Miazaki back. I willing to give the new guy a chance. But only one.

    LOL I meant that I pre-ordered, then I got and played the game. And then it turns out that the franchise was destroyed. I'm referring to Hitman.

    Also, Namco don't give a flying F what you want as long as they can trick dumbass fan boys into opening up their wallets.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by CaptanSpudsy on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:21 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:\

    Also, Namco don't give a flying F what you want as long as they can trick dumbass fan boys into opening up their wallets.

    Well, we can always storm the building and force them to bring him back. twisted


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by gaarafrednorris on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:22 pm

    Lucas didn't Direct what's referred to as the best Star Wars.

    Honestly, Shibuya is a nice choice. He's done most of the Monster Hunter (Say what you will, they have addicting gameplay and give the challenge I love) and worked on the Ultima series. Man knows his fantasy.

    And look at the Final Fantasy series (flame defenses, ACTIVATE!). Sakaguichi has done every game up to 8. After that, each installment got a new director and personally, I love them all and didn't know it was a different person till I actually googled. Sakaguichi even said his favorite is *gasp* 9! The first one he never worked on.

    So yeah. New director doesn't mean it's going to be bad. And from the concept art that was posted, it seems he knows his horror as well. I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll either be just as good as the other if not the best one yet.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:24 pm

    gaarafrednorris wrote:Lucas didn't Direct what's referred to as the best Star Wars.

    Honestly, Shibuya is a nice choice. He's done most of the Monster Hunter (Say what you will, they have addicting gameplay and give the challenge I love) and worked on the Ultima series. Man knows his fantasy.

    And look at the Final Fantasy series (flame defenses, ACTIVATE!). Sakaguichi has done every game up to 8. After that, each installment got a new director and personally, I love them all and didn't know it was a different person till I actually googled. Sakaguichi even said his favorite is *gasp* 9! The first one he never worked on.

    So yeah. New director doesn't mean it's going to be bad. And from the concept art that was posted, it seems he knows his horror as well. I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll either be just as good as the other if not the best one yet.

    Lucas didn't direct The Empire Strikes back, but he wrote and produced it. Miyazaki has already said in his interview that he has NO role in DaS2's development. They're simply attaching his name to it as a figurehead supervisor so that they can avoid enraging the fanbase. All the stupid ones will believe that it's a promotion for Miyazaki when really he was forcibly removed from the project. The Namco producer already said in the interview that "it was a company decision" Anyways, enjoy having your hopes crushed.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:29 pm

    It's not like these two new directors are some average joes or nobodies from the street, these are guys that worked on big titles already. It's not like they will make the worst game known in existence, probably nearly the opposite. The worst they can do is take away things from the previous Souls games that we have grown to love, but is that really a bad thing? If it stayed too similar all the time, we'd just start complaining for new stuff eventually.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by MasterofShadows on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:31 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    CaptanSpudsy wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote: I gave them the benefit of the doubt with a pre-order, and it turned out to have been a huge mistake.

    You can cancel pre-orders.


    Anywho, I say if DkS II isn't that great, bring Miazaki back. I willing to give the new guy a chance. But only one.

    LOL I meant that I pre-ordered, then I got and played the game. And then it turns out that the franchise was destroyed. I'm referring to Hitman.

    Also, Namco don't give a flying F what you want as long as they can trick dumbass fan boys into opening up their wallets.

    Ouch. Yeah, I'm a LOOOONG time Hitman fan. I was burned too, so I can understand.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:
    CaptanSpudsy wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote: I gave them the benefit of the doubt with a pre-order, and it turned out to have been a huge mistake.

    You can cancel pre-orders.


    Anywho, I say if DkS II isn't that great, bring Miazaki back. I willing to give the new guy a chance. But only one.

    LOL I meant that I pre-ordered, then I got and played the game. And then it turns out that the franchise was destroyed. I'm referring to Hitman.

    Also, Namco don't give a flying F what you want as long as they can trick dumbass fan boys into opening up their wallets.

    Ouch. Yeah, I'm a LOOOONG time Hitman fan. I was burned too, so I can understand.

    Indeed. Once bitten, twice shy.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:34 pm

    The Letter X wrote:It's not like these two new directors are some average joes or nobodies from the street, these are guys that worked on big titles already. It's not like they will make the worst game known in existence, probably nearly the opposite. The worst they can do is take away things from the previous Souls games that we have grown to love, but is that really a bad thing? If it stayed too similar all the time, we'd just start complaining for new stuff eventually.

    Just because they've already worked on big titles doesn't mean they understand, respect, or appreciate the beauty of Souls.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by MasterofShadows on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:35 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:It's not like these two new directors are some average joes or nobodies from the street, these are guys that worked on big titles already. It's not like they will make the worst game known in existence, probably nearly the opposite. The worst they can do is take away things from the previous Souls games that we have grown to love, but is that really a bad thing? If it stayed too similar all the time, we'd just start complaining for new stuff eventually.

    Just because they've already worked on big titles doesn't mean they understand, respect, or appreciate the beauty of Souls.

    When the truth comes out ComaPrison, you're just someone who needs a hung. Comere...(motions him over)....


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ComaPrison on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:44 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:It's not like these two new directors are some average joes or nobodies from the street, these are guys that worked on big titles already. It's not like they will make the worst game known in existence, probably nearly the opposite. The worst they can do is take away things from the previous Souls games that we have grown to love, but is that really a bad thing? If it stayed too similar all the time, we'd just start complaining for new stuff eventually.

    Just because they've already worked on big titles doesn't mean they understand, respect, or appreciate the beauty of Souls.

    When the truth comes out ComaPrison, you're just someone who needs a hung. Comere...(motions him over)....

    😢 MY SOOOOOOOULS
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by MasterofShadows on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:46 pm

    ComaPrison wrote:
    MasterofShadows wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:It's not like these two new directors are some average joes or nobodies from the street, these are guys that worked on big titles already. It's not like they will make the worst game known in existence, probably nearly the opposite. The worst they can do is take away things from the previous Souls games that we have grown to love, but is that really a bad thing? If it stayed too similar all the time, we'd just start complaining for new stuff eventually.

    Just because they've already worked on big titles doesn't mean they understand, respect, or appreciate the beauty of Souls.

    When the truth comes out ComaPrison, you're just someone who needs a hug. Comere...(motions him over)....

    😢 MY SOOOOOOOULS


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Acarnatia on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:36 pm

    Is there really any point to this? While I agree with ENB and a lot of the others on here about what I enjoy from the Souls series, it really is too early to say how this director is going to change the series and if it will be better, just as good, or worse. If he does dumb it down as many of the players on here are terrified of, then, yeah, that will be terrible. We don't KNOW that he's going to do that, yet, though; all we have is a third party interview, (don't trust the middle man) a few video (not gameplay) clips, a few not necessarily accurate or in-context quotes and a few pieces of concept art. Please wait until you actually know what it's going to be before making a final decision.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:59 am

    gaarafrednorris wrote:Lucas didn't Direct what's referred to as the best Star Wars.

    Honestly, Shibuya is a nice choice. He's done most of the Monster Hunter (Say what you will, they have addicting gameplay and give the challenge I love) and worked on the Ultima series. Man knows his fantasy.

    And look at the Final Fantasy series (flame defenses, ACTIVATE!). Sakaguichi has done every game up to 8. After that, each installment got a new director and personally, I love them all and didn't know it was a different person till I actually googled. Sakaguichi even said his favorite is *gasp* 9! The first one he never worked on.

    So yeah. New director doesn't mean it's going to be bad. And from the concept art that was posted, it seems he knows his horror as well. I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll either be just as good as the other if not the best one yet.
    The Shibuya working on DkSII is not the same Shibuya that worked on Monster Hunter. This Shibuya has worked with From for a while and directed a mech game only released in Japan called ACE. This might seem worse, but before Miyazaki did Demon's Souls, his only experience as a director was on a mech game


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Tomhet on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:20 am

    MasterofShadows wrote:

    Contrary to popular belief, game development is much more collaborative than film-making.

    I don't doubt you believe that but it must be because you are only familiar with the work of Western game studios who produce derivative crap every year.

    There are some games that without the director's unique vision they would be literally nothing. My favourite example: the Soul Reaver series. The director was such a huge fan of Blood Omen that she created a whole new mythos. It was a personal project and it died when she abandoned it.

    I have the impression that the Souls series was also a personal project for Miyazaki. As I said in my previous post, the magazine quotes how he was the one that decided that the lore would be presented in such an enigmatic way so that we the players could fill the gaps with our imagination. That's not a feature that you will get from ANY director, it was something related to a personal experience of his.

    So maybe DK2 won't be a bad game after all, hell, maybe it will be a unique game just like the first, it's too early to say, but IMHO they showed a huge amount of ingratitude when they decided to replace someone who invested so much in the Souls titles.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by MasterofShadows on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:54 am

    Just FYI,

    Newsflash, Japan has produced just as much derivative crap as the West. Over the last 5-7 years, the entire video game industry, not just the Western game studios you seem to hate, has been in a serious slump due to a severe lack of innovation and risk-taking. Okay, so you prefer Eastern developers over Western. That's cool, but don't be so biased, friend.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:06 am

    ^what he said, Streetfighter X tekken anybody?


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by MasterofShadows on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:38 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:^what he said, Streetfighter X tekken anybody?

    Final Fantasy anyone?


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ChillerHR on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 am

    Tomhet wrote:

    There are some games that without the director's unique vision they would be literally nothing.

    I have the impression that the Souls series was also a personal project for Miyazaki. As I said in my previous post, the magazine quotes how he was the one that decided that the lore would be presented in such an enigmatic way so that we the players could fill the gaps with our imagination. That's not a feature that you will get from ANY director, it was something related to a personal experience of his.

    So maybe DK2 won't be a bad game after all, hell, maybe it will be a unique game just like the first, it's too early to say, but IMHO they showed a huge amount of ingratitude when they decided to replace someone who invested so much in the Souls titles.

    My thoughts exactly...



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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Rynn on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:00 am

    Miyazaki was not in charge of the Kings Field games if I recall correctly. Those were cult classics too, and ones I quite enjoyed. From Software makes good games, it's not just Miyazaki.

    If anything kills Dark Souls 2, it would be the producers placing stringent deadlines, which is something we can only hope doesn't happen... and if it does, we'll simply keep playing DS1
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Tomhet on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:02 am

    MasterofShadows wrote:Okay, so you prefer Eastern developers over Western.

    That wasn't my point at all. Soul Reaver was developed by an American woman and I love Half Life. I'm just saying that big Western studios tend to make clones of previous entries of their franchises, that's why individual talent is usually overlooked.

    Someone else mentioned ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, that's a very good example of a personal project, without the director I doubt they would as awesome as they are. But I NEVER said that all Japanese games were good :roll:
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:03 am

    I know what you mean Rynn dead lines would put pressure on the new team to push through things rather than think them through... and Im sure most of us would stay with DKS if the sequel wasn't all that great.

    I just hope that I dont have to.

    While I do like Miyazaki a new producer could do great things for the franchise.


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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Rynn on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:04 am

    Let's look at my best example of how the director isn't everything.
    The brony fandom didn't collapse when Lauren Faust moved on to another show over 2 years ago.
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    Re: GIVE IT BACK TO MIYAZAKI

    Post by Tomhet on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:09 am

    That's the other thing. I am pretty sure that FROM would be able to deliver a very good game even without Miyazaki, but if Bandai is applying pressure to make it less 'hardcore' then that would really worry me.

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