New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by sinspaw on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:51 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    bosslugger wrote:
    sinspaw wrote:It could be a great game. One thing is very clear to me at this point however, and that is that it's going to be a completed different game. I don't believe there will be stuff like covenants either. As much optimistic as reading the comments from the EDGE guys who watched the game play may have made be towards DKS2... I was also disgusted with NAMCO.

    When I was reading that Miyazaki actually corrected himself in regards to not really being his own choice; then the guy from NAMCO says it was a company decision to step him out; THEN they say DKS was in development before DKS1 even came out!?! That is some ********. That to me means that the relationship between Miyazaki and NAMCO had already broken down by then. However good or bad DKS did... Miyazaki was likely already out. Just... disgusting. The lack of respect for this visionary that walks among us and creates products like no other being treated like this. His baby is gone with different people now, and a much bigger budget; and he is on an entirely new project. I bet his supervisor title on DKS2 is merely to look 'good' when the media writes so.

    Ugh... somehow DKS2 is already slightly tainted for me, regardless of how good it might come to be.

    Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Miyazaki was burned out and wanted a change? He said himself in previous interviews he wasn't sure if he'd to a follow-up to Dark Souls, and that was around the time DkSII was starting development.
    He's been the director of this series for 5+ years, plus he said in the Edge interview that he wants to work on something "warmer".
    Perhaps it comes down to this: Namco reached out to him to direct a sequel, he said no thanks, I'd like to work on something else, so they asked him to tap a successor to lead it, and asked him to supervise the transition.
    It is entirely in the realm of possibility that Miyazaki just tired of the Souls universe and wanted something else to work on. Why must we immediately jump to the sinister and assume he was kicked out?
    We may not get what we want in a sequel, but I for one am not going to attack From/Namco without knowing what really happened.

    Of course, most of what you are saying, despite how reasonable it is, will be falling on deaf ears. Apparently, conspiracy sounds so much better than what you are saying.

    First of all, @MasterofShadows - who is talking about a conspiracy? You think a creator/director of a project being sidelined for the projects advancement qualifies as a conspiracy? I think you need to investigate what that word means. Stuff like this happens all the time.

    Secondly, bosslugger - the hypothesis that he was sidelined by the company does have strong evidence in my view, like I stated before. On image 06 it reads that Miyazaki corrects himself, making it clear the the decision to hire those new directors was made by FROM and NAMCO. Another piece of evidence is the paragraph that follows, where a NAMCO producer also states that it was a company decision to do so. Was he burnt out? Maybe. But the alternatives are that either he didn't want to do a DKS2 game and so the game was put somewhere else; or he wanted to do it but NAMCO didn't let him. Either way, does it sound to you like his opinion is being respected?

    Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions in saying he was disrespected, but I can't help the idea that NAMCO couldn't care less what Miyazaki thinks. Also, it's not like NAMCO haven't ruined franchises by doing thins the way they want instead of how the creators want. This is just one of those things... if DKS2 is awesome then NAMCO is awesome by getting those new people to do it, but if they ruined it (like they have done in other franchises in the past), then they are corporate bastards. Me being a cynical, I already assume it's the latter. And you know what? It's my prerogative to do so.

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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by bosslugger on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:57 pm

    sinspaw wrote:
    MasterofShadows wrote:
    bosslugger wrote:
    sinspaw wrote:It could be a great game. One thing is very clear to me at this point however, and that is that it's going to be a completed different game. I don't believe there will be stuff like covenants either. As much optimistic as reading the comments from the EDGE guys who watched the game play may have made be towards DKS2... I was also disgusted with NAMCO.

    When I was reading that Miyazaki actually corrected himself in regards to not really being his own choice; then the guy from NAMCO says it was a company decision to step him out; THEN they say DKS was in development before DKS1 even came out!?! That is some ********. That to me means that the relationship between Miyazaki and NAMCO had already broken down by then. However good or bad DKS did... Miyazaki was likely already out. Just... disgusting. The lack of respect for this visionary that walks among us and creates products like no other being treated like this. His baby is gone with different people now, and a much bigger budget; and he is on an entirely new project. I bet his supervisor title on DKS2 is merely to look 'good' when the media writes so.

    Ugh... somehow DKS2 is already slightly tainted for me, regardless of how good it might come to be.

    Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Miyazaki was burned out and wanted a change? He said himself in previous interviews he wasn't sure if he'd to a follow-up to Dark Souls, and that was around the time DkSII was starting development.
    He's been the director of this series for 5+ years, plus he said in the Edge interview that he wants to work on something "warmer".
    Perhaps it comes down to this: Namco reached out to him to direct a sequel, he said no thanks, I'd like to work on something else, so they asked him to tap a successor to lead it, and asked him to supervise the transition.
    It is entirely in the realm of possibility that Miyazaki just tired of the Souls universe and wanted something else to work on. Why must we immediately jump to the sinister and assume he was kicked out?
    We may not get what we want in a sequel, but I for one am not going to attack From/Namco without knowing what really happened.

    Of course, most of what you are saying, despite how reasonable it is, will be falling on deaf ears. Apparently, conspiracy sounds so much better than what you are saying.

    First of all, @MasterofShadows - who is talking about a conspiracy? You think a creator/director of a project being sidelined for the projects advancement qualifies as a conspiracy? I think you need to investigate what that word means. Stuff like this happens all the time.

    Secondly, bosslugger - the hypothesis that he was sidelined by the company does have strong evidence in my view, like I stated before. On image 06 it reads that Miyazaki corrects himself, making it clear the the decision to hire those new directors was made by FROM and NAMCO. Another piece of evidence is the paragraph that follows, where a NAMCO producer also states that it was a company decision to do so. Was he burnt out? Maybe. But the alternatives are that either he didn't want to do a DKS2 game and so the game was put somewhere else; or he wanted to do it but NAMCO didn't let him. Either way, does it sound to you like his opinion is being respected?

    Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions in saying he was disrespected, but I can't help the idea that NAMCO couldn't care less what Miyazaki thinks. Also, it's not like NAMCO haven't ruined franchises by doing thins the way they want instead of how the creators want. This is just one of those things... if DKS2 is awesome then NAMCO is awesome by getting those new people to do it, but if they ruined it (like they have done in other franchises in the past), then they are corporate bastards. Me being a cynical, I already assume it's the latter. And you know what? It's my prerogative to do so.

    I think you're being irrational and over emotional, but it's awesome that you care so much about the franchise.
    We can dissect words all day long but we'll never know what really happened because none of us work at From, or know Miyazaki personally.
    Being angry about him not being involved in Dark Souls II will serve no purpose at all. The game will release whether you support it or not. So it's really all wasted energy fighting change.
    Instead, it would be a far greater use of everyone's time to thank Miyazaki for his contributions and honor him respectfully, rather than dragging his name and reputation through the mud with these silly, baseless accusations.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by sinspaw on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:26 pm

    Irrational? Are you serious? What part of what I say lacks reason? The part where I use evidence of what people involved in production and creation of the game have said in their latest interview? I'm not at all angry at Miyazaki being left out, I'm pointing it that I think he did, and I think he wasn't shown respect by NAMCO.

    I am however starting to get angry at you and your bullsh1t. You have no absolute evidence whatsoever to support what you say, but you say I'm being irrational? I can just smell the stupidity in the air. I have never said I do not support the release of the game, I have actually mentioned I'm looking forward to it and it has the potential to be a great game. Just disappointed with the way NAMCO have handled this. I am bashing NAMCO's reputation based on their own answers to the interview, not Miyazaki's reputation. It's like you haven't read a word of what I've written. But I won't respond to you anymore after this, because it's like trying to teach a wall how to be a ceiling.

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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Plantinum on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:29 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:If you're talking IRL combat, then they shouldn't include duel-wielding at all. Nearly every culture and martial arts style flat-out said 'never duel-wield'. It gave no particular advantage to use to similar weapons, could be confusing, and you'd be much more effective using a weapon two-handed, a weapon and shield or even just one-handing a weapon. Duel-wielding exists ONLY because of the 'Rule of Cool'.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool/

    You have obviously never heard of Miyamoto Musashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi), one of historys most famous samurais, reknowned for creating a two-sword fighting style.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:46 pm

    Plantinum wrote:
    Acarnatia wrote:If you're talking IRL combat, then they shouldn't include duel-wielding at all. Nearly every culture and martial arts style flat-out said 'never duel-wield'. It gave no particular advantage to use to similar weapons, could be confusing, and you'd be much more effective using a weapon two-handed, a weapon and shield or even just one-handing a weapon. Duel-wielding exists ONLY because of the 'Rule of Cool'.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool/

    You have obviously never heard of Miyamoto Musashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi), one of historys most famous samurais, reknowned for creating a two-sword fighting style.

    I'd love someone to even try and say that in souls where you fight things 10 times your size, an offhand weapon is better than a massive shield, let's be serious here.

    Against regular guys, sure cool it could be lethal, but up against *** off large bosses its not gonna help all that much.

    Love to see dual wielding, but would only be good really for pvp not main game


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:54 pm

    Sinspaw and bosslugger:

    Calm down a bit guys. I think we are letting ourselves get too heated here. There are some valid opinions being thrown out from sides, but there's no point in letting this discussion come to blows. We all love this series, and we are just passionate about difference aspects of this situation. Let's try to stay respectful.


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Plantinum on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:00 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Plantinum wrote:
    Acarnatia wrote:If you're talking IRL combat, then they shouldn't include duel-wielding at all. Nearly every culture and martial arts style flat-out said 'never duel-wield'. It gave no particular advantage to use to similar weapons, could be confusing, and you'd be much more effective using a weapon two-handed, a weapon and shield or even just one-handing a weapon. Duel-wielding exists ONLY because of the 'Rule of Cool'.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool/

    You have obviously never heard of Miyamoto Musashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi), one of historys most famous samurais, reknowned for creating a two-sword fighting style.

    I'd love someone to even try and say that in souls where you fight things 10 times your size, an offhand weapon is better than a massive shield, let's be serious here.

    Against regular guys, sure cool it could be lethal, but up against *** off large bosses its not gonna help all that much.

    Love to see dual wielding, but would only be good really for pvp not main game

    Well, that's where your dodge roll and badass'ery skills come into play winking And we already have experience with dual wielding pretty badass NPC's and some enemies (capra demon). And I seriously doubt Ciaran of the Lord's Blades, who is a dual-wielder, would have problems laying waste to larger enemies without a shield - she is one of Gwyn's four knights after all.

    I would love to see a well-implemented dual wielding mechanic that would be viable on a light build. Or could possibly be used on a heavy build to just dish out immense damage while tanking the hits
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:17 pm

    NAMCO is going to destroy the Souls series in the pursuit of extreme profits. And I'm going to laugh at all you fools that didn't even see it coming. If DS2 turns out to be awesome, and honors the spirit of DS, then I will play it and have a ton of fun. If, on the other hand, Namco destroys DS2 for profits, then I will already be expecting that. I will laugh at all of you that had your hopes crushed.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by tofucactaur on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:50 am

    ummm...yeah.... thanks ComaPrison.... sure...


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ak1287 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:02 am

    tofucactaur wrote:ummm...yeah.... thanks ComaPrison.... sure...

    Don't mind him. He's comedic value.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:05 am

    I find your sense of comedy to be... strange


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:06 am

    tofucactaur wrote:ummm...yeah.... thanks ComaPrison.... sure...

    It's so pathetic how convinced you are that they're not going to casualize DS2 for the sake of major profits. You either have no experience with the business world or you are naive as all hell. Maybe both? If someone held a check for tens of millions of dollars in front of your face and said it's all yours if you are willing to do X, Y, and Z, to a new version of one of your old products, are you saying you would say no? This is the dilemma that FromSoft faces, and they have obviously already answered "yes" to Namco's demands. I mean come on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3uipTO-4A


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ak1287 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:08 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:I find your sense of comedy to be... strange
    Eh. He cracks me up. I guess the closest analogy would be a drunk in a bar who keeps yelling the same thing, even though nobody cares.

    It's not classically funny, but you chuckle at it anyway, because it's so ridiculous.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:09 am

    ak1287 wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:I find your sense of comedy to be... strange
    Eh. He cracks me up. I guess the closest analogy would be a drunk in a bar who keeps yelling the same thing, even though nobody cares.

    It's not classically funny, but you chuckle at it anyway, because it's so ridiculous.


    Ahahhahahahahaha! +1 to you sir


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:11 am

    I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive. That's why you're all so hopeful and willing to suspend your skepticism.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:14 am

    Tis so


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:14 am

    ComaPrison wrote:I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive.

    Without profit, new art can't be produced. There's a difference between trying to expand the fanbase and selling out, now quit talking like you know anything about anything.


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by tofucactaur on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:16 am

    ComaPrison wrote:
    tofucactaur wrote:ummm...yeah.... thanks ComaPrison.... sure...

    It's so pathetic how convinced you are that they're not going to casualize DS2 for the sake of major profits. You either have no experience with the business world or you are naive as all hell. Maybe both? If someone held a check for tens of millions of dollars in front of your face and said it's all yours if you are willing to do X, Y, and Z, to a new version of one of your old products, are you saying you would say no? This is the dilemma that FromSoft faces, and they have obviously already answered "yes" to Namco's demands. I mean come on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3uipTO-4A


    Ok? Thanks for the name calling..... I think you need to calm down a bit. I clearly did not offer an opinion of my own, so I don't really know why you attacked me in the way you did. I think that it is difficult to tell what From will do, and I can only hope they are going to offer an experience that is similar to the last two games. I personally do not think it is necessarily a bad thing for From to attempt to expand their audience, as long as they still offer the core experience that the previous souls games offer. Your negative speculations and name calling/irate posts are not constructive in the slightest and are in fact downright annoying, hence my initial post.


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:17 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive.

    Without profit, new art can't be produced. There's a difference between trying to expand the fanbase and selling out, now quit talking like you know anything about anything.

    That is a fine line to walk, and the vast majority of businesses fall into the latter camp. I am going to laugh my f-ing a off and bathe in your tears when you see DS2 released as a casualized piece of sh. In the mean time, feel free to hold onto your naive and misplaced optimism.

    tofucactaur wrote:Your negative speculations and name calling/irate posts are not constructive in the slightest and are in fact downright annoying.

    As is all the rampantly misplaced hopefulness and optimism I see.


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:20 am

    ComaPrison wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive.

    Without profit, new art can't be produced. There's a difference between trying to expand the fanbase and selling out, now quit talking like you know anything about anything.

    I am going to laugh my f-ing a off and bathe in your tears when you see DS2 released as a casualized piece of sh. In the mean time, feel free to hold onto your naive and misplaced optimism.

    The only optimism I misplaced was the hope that you could be anything more than a troll and actually offer something constructive.


    Last edited by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:24 am

    ComaPrison wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive.

    Without profit, new art can't be produced. There's a difference between trying to expand the fanbase and selling out, now quit talking like you know anything about anything.

    That is a fine line to walk, and the vast majority of businesses fall into the latter camp. I am going to laugh my f-ing a off and bathe in your tears when you see DS2 released as a casualized piece of sh. In the mean time, feel free to hold onto your naive and misplaced optimism.

    tofucactaur wrote:Your negative speculations and name calling/irate posts are not constructive in the slightest and are in fact downright annoying.


    As is all the rampantly misplaced hopefulness and optimism I see.

    Dudes cool your jets before I take this to the mod team please. You all have your rights to think what you want about the new souls games but serious dont go off flaming, and counter flaming one another.

    Remember.....PAPA NITO LOVES YOU


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:24 am

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    ComaPrison wrote:I can see how most of you younger gamers haven't had enough experience with the real world yet to see how often art is corrupted by the profit motive.

    Without profit, new art can't be produced. There's a difference between trying to expand the fanbase and selling out, now quit talking like you know anything about anything.

    I am going to laugh my f-ing a off and bathe in your tears when you see DS2 released as a casualized piece of sh. In the mean time, feel free to hold onto your naive and misplaced optimism.

    The only optimism I misplaced was the hope that you could be anything more than a troll, and actually offer something constructive.

    I don't see how it's any more constructive for you naively optimistic fools to place all your faith in FromSoft to be able to maintain artistic integrity in the face of potentially tens of millions of dollars in profits. Maybe hundreds of millions if they turn DS into the next Elder Scrolls or COD.

    I think not enough of you have had something you love become destroyed and corrupted by the profit motive.
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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 am

    ComaPrison: This post is to discuss the concept art for the next game, something I have yet to see you do.

    If you wish to continue going on about how the next game is gonna suck and how From is going to sellout, then feel free to make your own thread.


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:29 am

    And a mod was notified that day


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

    Post by ComaPrison on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:32 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:And a mod was notified that day

    LOL I can see how much you must be struggling to shield your mind from any talk of the possibility of DS2 being a huge disappointment. It's simply much too dreary to conceive of something you love being corrupted isn't it?


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    Re: New Concept Art + Interview (EDGE article)

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