Let's talk about underused spells.

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    Rynn
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    Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:24 am

    So, let's go over some under-used spells, and why I'd like to see them used more often.

    Soul Arrow: Particularily Great Soul Arrow. Soul Arrow, Much like the Fireball spells in pyromancy, isn't used because there is a better version. Just like you'll never see fireball used over fire orb or great fireball. However, you never see Great Soul Arrow Cast...

    The homing on Soul Arrow is magnificient, if an opponent rolls at the same time they normally would to evade Soul Spear, the projectile homes enough that at long range, the soul arrow will still hit them. Doing about 400 damage a hit, it's respectable due to having 20 casts and having nearly no risk to it's caster. Furthermore, it's a great chasing spell. If an opponent is running away, rather then attempt to catch them with a rolling attack, you can cast a soul arrow, and I gurantee it will hit your opponent 100% of the time. Since most people run away with less then 400 HP left, this is good for killing a coward who is trying to abandon the duel.

    The heavy versions of soul arrow are just as great in their homing capabilities, and further throw the opponent off with their odd cast time.

    Emit Force: This is a faith builds Great Fireball, I swear to it. It does equivelant damage when you use the ring of the suns firstborn and the dusk crown, and it's best used without lockon. Aim it at your feet when someone tries to roll BS you, and you'll ram him for 1K damage on a counter hit. It does the same damage as a great fireball, while deflecting projectiles and having 6, rather then 4 casts. If you're extra evil, you can use the ring of the sun princess to further boost it's damage by 10%.

    Gravelord Sword Dances: If you're a gravelord, rank 3, these do 30% more damage. That makes great sword dance do far more damage then fire tempest ever will do, while also getting twice the casts per attunement slot. You can easily one-shot anyone with this skill, as it does 1670 damage on average for me, without getting counter damage. With counter damage it easily hits 2K. The gravelord sword dance is almost as powerful, with just as many casts. Bear in mind if you're not a member of the Gravelord covenant, it suffers a 10% damage loss. So the difference inbetween being a member +3 and not being in the covenant is effectively the difference inbetween 90% and 130% damage.

    Far higher requirements, but far higher reward, then fire tempest.

    Sunlight Spears: While easily dodgable, if you fight lock-off you can with a lot of skill at aiming, aim at the -exact- spot the person will land their roll. If you do this correctly it WILL hit them, and this often scores 1400 or more damage in a single hit. Be prepared for accusations of lag, however, because not a single opponent will ever believe you led them into that one... perhaps if more people started doing it...... Note, impossible against ninja-roll.

    Dark Orb: This skill travels really fast, and it's hitbox is the size of a semi-truck. Great for knocking over shields, inflicting massive amount of damage to backstab fishers, and for catching opponents at the end of their roll. You can use it locked on, the game actually takes care of enough that lock-off fighting doesn't improve results, in my experience.

    Karmatic Justice: If you are a pure caster, use it, otherwise, don't. Karmatic justice is sort of bugged, as it does damage based on the weapon currently held in your right hand. That means if you're still holding your talisman, the explosion is lethal, coming in at 1300-1800 damage easily if you've got all magic boosting items.

    If you have any other spells, I can probably find a PvP utility for them, tell me and I'll tell you how to turn an underused spell into a major killer. I'd like to make video's of this later when I get my capture card.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:44 am

    I'm using everyhing you listed mate, except for Heavy Soul Arrows, as they cast too long. Might as well go for WDB then.

    Underused spell?

    Definitely Aural Decoy and Seek Guidance.
    Still haven't killed anyone in PvP with it, no matter how much I spam it.
    I even tried to make a combo from them.
    Seek Guidance in my Aural Decoy you fiend and die!
    All it does is getting me backstabed. sad

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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:48 am

    Sentiel wrote:I'm using everyhing you listed mate, except for Heavy Soul Arrows, as they cast too long. Might as well go for WDB then.

    Underused spell?

    Definitely Aural Decoy and Seek Guidance.
    Still haven't killed anyone in PvP with it, no matter how much I spam it.
    I even tried to make a combo from them.
    Seek Guidance in my Aural Decoy you fiend and die!
    All it does is getting me backstabed. sad
    Seek Guidance does nothing though, like... it's use is to make orange soapstone messages from the developers appear.

    Aural Decoy is very useful if paired with undead rapport.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by XachAttack on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:51 am

    Seek Guidance could be used to pretend that you're using Twop. You could use a Heal miracle afterwards.

    It's my understanding that using a Heal type miracle is ok in Duels as it has a long cast time. So there you go \o/.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:54 am

    XachAttack wrote:Seek Guidance could be used to pretend that you're using Twop.
    Whoa, I might do that!
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Juutas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:00 am

    Usually I hate magic, but I love hidden weapon! I still get amazed how much more I land hits on my ninja build just because that simple spell. The only weapon buff that actually looks cool to me big grin


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:03 am

    You should try it with a str weapon Juutas silly I love stunlocking people who think i'm unarmed.

    I've also tried casting a mist spell, changing weapon, and recasting HW. Most of the time i switch from a DGM to a GC. It works very well.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by XachAttack on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:03 am

    I can't imagine how Hidden Weapon works so well for so many people..After the first swing it's obvious what weapon type you're using, after that's noted they can either parry it or fight accordingly.

    Then again, I haven't had anyone use it against me, so I'm only speaking through logic instead of experience lol.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:10 am

    It can be hard sometimes tough. You may know what kind of weapon it is, but you don't know which one it is. IE. IF it's a katana, you don't know if it's the WP or the laito. Or if it's a curved sword then you don't know if it's a scimitar, a falchion or a PGS.

    Most of that has to do with range. It's a lot harder to space yourself and get out of it's range if you can't actually see the weapon.


    But that doesn't matter to me. Since i use it on str weapons, the first hit is (most of the time) all i need, after that they're stunlocked and pretty much dead.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Juutas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:10 am

    Spurgun wrote:You should try it with a str weapon Juutas silly I love stunlocking people who think i'm unarmed.

    I've also tried casting a mist spell, changing weapon, and recasting HW. Most of the time i switch from a DGM to a GC. It works very well.

    From my experience the STR-weapons/Halberds are the best kind to use the hidden weapon on, so I can highly recommend it, actually there is this streamer guy (I think Knutaf) who uses strenght weapons with hidden weapon and he's doing good. You can get the spell with really low stat investment too, so not much to be sacrified.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:13 am

    XachAttack wrote:I can't imagine how Hidden Weapon works so well for so many people..After the first swing it's obvious what weapon type you're using, after that's noted they can either parry it or fight accordingly.

    Then again, I haven't had anyone use it against me, so I'm only speaking through logic instead of experience lol.
    Maybe if they swung a greatsword. The animations of a Curved sword or straight sword are harder to immediately discern after one swing.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Juutas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:14 am

    XachAttack wrote:I can't imagine how Hidden Weapon works so well for so many people..After the first swing it's obvious what weapon type you're using, after that's noted they can either parry it or fight accordingly.

    Then again, I haven't had anyone use it against me, so I'm only speaking through logic instead of experience lol.

    Yeah, it is weird isn't it? big grin it shouldn't have too much of an effect but some players just get confused as hell for some reason when they can't see your weapon and I've never ever been parried when using hidden weapon.
    I don't think it works too good on a simple small dex weapon though.


    Last edited by Juutas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:14 am

    The build that i have HW on only has 16 int. So i have HW and one offensive spell (either DB or GSA).

    In duels i use GMW instead of HW though, since you HW doesn't really work in duels silly
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by XachAttack on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:22 am

    Hm..I guess I'll have to wait until I fight someone who uses it then. Sounds interesting.

    Here's another underused spell from me \o/. I believe FIre Whip is one of them. You can apparently use it to Roll BS punish by turning around, and you can use it on wakeup after a bs or riposte.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Juutas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:31 am

    I see firewhip all the time, but really can't recommned it to anyone...don't get me wrong I like to see people use something non-optimal every once in a while, but...damn that spell sucks.
    I can't recall I've ever been hit by it and it's so easily punished it's just not that viable...cool as hell though.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by XachAttack on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:17 am

    Really? Hm...Oh well then. Nevermind I guess lol.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:34 am

    I don't see people use Force much. It does all the important stuff that WoG does for less than half the required faith and has seven times as many casts.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:31 pm

    I've found a perfect way to use Aural Decoy.
    I just parried an invader and riposted him, backed to a corner (so I don't get bs) and used Aural Decoy. I've parried him again and instead of riposte used Aural Decoy right away.
    I'm expecting hate mail very soon. lol!

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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

    Magic shield, white dragon breath, fall control, hush, remedy,


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:44 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:Magic shield, white dragon breath, fall control, hush, remedy,
    I use those in PvE a lot. sad

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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:48 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:Magic shield, white dragon breath, fall control, hush, remedy,
    Magic Shield: Unlike Great Magic Shield, this lasts a good period of time and raises your shields stability and damage resistances to 80 and 90%/90%/90%/90% (only raising, never lowering). This makes it very potent for turtling for the first 30 seconds of a fight. It can also be used on a weapon if in your left hand.

    White Dragon Breath is a lock-off spell. It does about the damage of a normal soul spear, and has 20 casts. In PvP it's easy to hit with if you're aiming lock-off and aim at where the persons roll will end.

    Fall Control is GREAT in PvE and PvP, but only in niche locations. You use it in Sens Fortress, or before fighting Nito (so you dont start at 50% HP), you can also use it for some surprise attacks by jumping down from nearly lethal distances to catch your opponent off guard.

    Hush is used for assassinations, The host uses it before making a move, and runs up behind the invader for a quick, silent, kill. I've used it to great success in the forest before.

    Remedy is a PvE spell, but if you're not willing to carry around White flowered moss clumps, it could save you from a bad toxin in PvP.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by RANT on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 pm

    Saturday-Saint wrote:I don't see people use Force much. It does all the important stuff that WoG does for less than half the required faith and has seven times as many casts.

    force can be one of the cheapest spells in the game, i take it you havent run into people that spam force and bs? it gets them bs'ed a lot but if youre not used to it youre screwed.


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:43 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Magic Shield: Unlike Great Magic Shield, this lasts a good period of time and raises your shields stability and damage resistances to 80 and 90%/90%/90%/90% (only raising, never lowering). This makes it very potent for turtling for the first 30 seconds of a fight. It can also be used on a weapon if in your left hand.
    Wwwwhat?!

    So I can use it on something like a Parrying Dagger and get 90%/90%/90%/90% Reduction with 80 Stability for 30 seconds?!


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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by Rynn on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:44 pm

    Not sure how it works on weapons, just that you can buff a weapon with it. I know the stats on a shield is 90% to everything, I don't see why a weapon would be different.
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    Re: Let's talk about underused spells.

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:03 pm

    Rynn wrote:Not sure how it works on weapons, just that you can buff a weapon with it. I know the stats on a shield is 90% to everything, I don't see why a weapon would be different.

    I just tested it, it seems that Magic Shield only improves (at least on weapons) elemental defenses, neither stability or physical defense are improved. Now, Great Shield on the other hand improves at least physical (haven't tested magic) to 100%, meaning you can block with a weapon for 100% physical damage reduction and also with very good stability. This is awesome. And for the record: You can only enchant weapons that you can block with, even if they are UNIQUE or if it has an elemental/magic/divine upgrade path. That means you can enchant a Moonlight Greatsword in your left hand to block it with 100% phys damage reduction and still attack with it pressing R2 for a good damage.

    Again, this is awesome. You can't enchant weapons you can't block with in your left hand i.e daggers and such. It does NOT improve damage at all. I tested this on a Divine Club +10, Moonlight Sword +5 and Channeler's Trident +5.


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