So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:54 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:Again, why? If they've become OP without glitching or modding then fairness shouldn't come into it, as it's a part of the games dynamic as there is nothing in place to stop them. Furthermore, I would argue that they have earned the right to low-level invade as hard as they can, as being low-level they would of had to have possessed some skill to play the game through to the end to begin with, and so they should be free to use whatever equipment they have as they see fit.

    Fairness in a Souls game I never thought I would see the day! lol


    It's not so much that that it's unfair, it's that they're doing it just to be d!cks.
    I disagree, if they've got to where they are without glitching or modding then they are in fact showing the true spirit of the game, whereby being an Invader they are supposed to prey on the weak, be totally ruthless, and show no mercy. We may not like it, but that's the way it is. twisted

    No they're ruining other peoples experience because they have nothing better to do, they could just as easily play against someone their one skill level. There is such a thing as taking the role playing thing too far.

    I've been low-level griefed more times than I care to mention, I even tried it myself once, but subsequently found that it wasn't to my liking, but not once have I ever felt that an Invasion has helped to ruin my experience of playing the game, as I prefer to look on each and every one of them as more of an enhancement to my current run, especially if I've got a lot to loose.

    Sure you get the odd , or the occasional , but these are few and far between, and so are easily off.

    My point is, invasion is a part of the games dynamic, and as there are no in-game rules or restrictions governing how an Invader should or should not behave they are pretty much free to do as they please, which includes griefing in the Burg. We may not like it, but providing glitching and modding are not involved it is still a legit way to play the game, and so is something that we all must learn to be more tolerant of.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:00 pm

    Like I said, it being legit has nothing to do with it. People who do it do it out of pure malice, in the real world we call those people psychopaths,sociopaths sadists, and bullies.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:08 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Like I said, it being legit has nothing to do with it. People who do it do it out of pure malice, in the real world we call those people psychopaths,sociopaths sadists, and bullies.
    How the heck do you know what's going on in their heads? What are you some kind of mind reader? Don't talk so daft! There is a whole world of difference between being a griefer in a game, and being a psychopath/sociopath/sadist/bully in the real world. Have you ever considered that some griefers may actually be doing this to help enhance the game playing experience of others, or as a means to draw out equally OP opponents so that they the hunters can then become the hunted? My point is unless you know these people personally you will not have the slightest idea what's going on in their heads, and all you're doing is displaying just how butt-hurt you are from your own on-line experiences, which says a heck of a lot more about your own personalitiy than you can ever surmise about others.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm

    Gazman0169 wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:Like I said, it being legit has nothing to do with it. People who do it do it out of pure malice, in the real world we call those people psychopaths,sociopaths sadists, and bullies.
    How the heck do you know what's going on in their heads? What are you some kind of mind reader? Don't talk so daft! There is a whole world of difference between being a griefer in a game, and being a psychopath/sociopath/sadist/bully in the real world. Have you ever considered that some griefers may actually be doing this to help enhance the game playing experience of others, or as a means to draw out equally OP opponents so that they the hunters can then become the hunted? My point is unless you know these people personally you will not have the slightest idea what's going on in their heads, and all you're doing is displaying just how butt-hurt you are from your own on-line experiences, which says a heck of a lot more about your own personalitiy than you can ever surmise about others.

    I've only been invaded by a griefer once and I had my own OP phantom to protect me, So no I have no bad experiences with griefers. Who's making assumptions now?

    Keep in mind that I played Demon's and am therefore not new to the series, that's who I'm trying to defend, players who are new to the series.



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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm

    callipygias wrote:Before this gets out of hand, are you all talking about the same thing: Burg griefing? I find it hard to believe anyone would defend that.
    I'll gladly stand up for them! For whilst I do not like their actions, the mere fact that there is nothing in-game preventing them from doing what they do, they are in my mind the true embodyment of what an Invader should be. A person who preys on the weak, with a ruthless uncaring heart, for pure gain. twisted


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:21 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:Like I said, it being legit has nothing to do with it. People who do it do it out of pure malice, in the real world we call those people psychopaths,sociopaths sadists, and bullies.
    How the heck do you know what's going on in their heads? What are you some kind of mind reader? Don't talk so daft! There is a whole world of difference between being a griefer in a game, and being a psychopath/sociopath/sadist/bully in the real world. Have you ever considered that some griefers may actually be doing this to help enhance the game playing experience of others, or as a means to draw out equally OP opponents so that they the hunters can then become the hunted? My point is unless you know these people personally you will not have the slightest idea what's going on in their heads, and all you're doing is displaying just how butt-hurt you are from your own on-line experiences, which says a heck of a lot more about your own personalitiy than you can ever surmise about others.

    I've only been invaded by a griefer once and I had my own OP phantom to protect me, So no I have no I have no bad experiences with griefers. Who's making assumptions now?

    Then what gives you the right to comment on what they should or should not be doing, given that (glitching and modding aside) what low-level Invaders do is totally legit, and that by your own admission your one and only experience of a low-level invasion ended up being a 2v1 affair with the odds stacked firmly in your favor? Did you lose by chance? As this could help to explain why you're now acting so butt-hurt over all this! :roll:


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by callipygias on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:28 pm

    Gazman0169 wrote:
    callipygias wrote:Before this gets out of hand, are you all talking about the same thing: Burg griefing? I find it hard to believe anyone would defend that.
    I'll gladly stand up for them! twisted
    Wow. Takes all kinds, like mama said.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:32 pm

    Because even though it is legit, it's clearly not what the developers intended, or do you have the option of unlimited invasions before the 4 kings? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

    And no I didn't even do anything, one backstab from my phantom killed the guy.


    Anyway, since you clearly don't plan on changing your mind on the topic, and I have nothing more to say, I'm out.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:33 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:
    callipygias wrote:Before this gets out of hand, are you all talking about the same thing: Burg griefing? I find it hard to believe anyone would defend that.
    I'll gladly stand up for them! twisted
    Wow. Takes all kinds, like mama said.
    As I've said before, if they've got to where they are without the need to glitch or mod then why shouldn't they use their equipment as they see fit?

    Morality in a Souls game I never thought I would see the day! lol


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:36 pm

    I'm going to have to say, as I'm sure has been said already several times, that outside of hacking, which I don't really experience on the Ps3 anyway, that the single most irritating factor for me is the complainers. It's all part of the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. When I get owned I try to accept it as a learning experience and alter my strategies to try to overcome whatever beat me. Yeah, we all get cheesed sometimes, but the number of positive experiences I have in-game by far outweigh the number of negative ones


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by callipygias on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:40 pm

    Simple human dignity, Gaz.

    As I said before, you are little different from an infinite health hacker as a Burg griefer. If you want to test it I'll invade you with my sl 6 in the Burg when you're on a new character, everything +0, and even though you may be a better PvPer than me I will beat you 100 out of 100 times, all I have to do is not fall. You won't stand a chance, and it'll have nothing to do with skill level.

    Maybe then it won't matter to you whether my guy's legit or not.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:42 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Because even though it is legit, it's clearly not what the developers intended, or do you have the option of unlimited invasions before the 4 kings? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

    And no I didn't even do anything, one backstab from my phantom killed the guy.

    What complete and utter rot! If it wasn't what the Developers intended then they would of patched the ability to low-level OP invade ages ago. I tell you what to prove me wrong on this post a link to a body of text from the Developer, or anyone tied-in with the production of this game for that matter, which displays any level of objection to low-level OP invasions?

    (I won't hold my breath waiting! :roll: )

    As for your other point, so why are you so against low-level OP invasions, if your only experience in this regard ended up with the death of the Invader, which you apparently played no part in?


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:48 pm

    callipygias wrote:Simple human dignity, Gaz.

    As I said before, you are little different from an infinite health hacker as a Burg griefer. If you want to test it I'll invade you with my sl 6 in the Burg when you're on a new character, everything +0, and even though you may be a better PvPer than me I will beat you 100 out of 100 times, all I have to do is not fall. You won't stand a chance, and it'll have nothing to do with skill level.

    Maybe then it won't matter to you whether my guy's legit or not.
    Yes, but how many first timers go through the burg Human? I can guarantee the vast majority will not, and even if they did they're first expereince of a low-level OP invasion will more than likely prevent them from popping a Humanity any time soon. At any rate, how is this any different from the Bridge Wyverns surprise attack near Solaire, or the first encounter with Seath? Both of which will be instantly fatal to any first timer without any prior knowledge of the game.

    Simple human dignity in a Souls game I never thought I would see the day! lol


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:49 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:I'm going to have to say, as I'm sure has been said already several times, that outside of hacking, which I don't really experience on the Ps3 anyway, that the single most irritating factor for me is the complainers. It's all part of the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. When I get owned I try to accept it as a learning experience and alter my strategies to try to overcome whatever beat me. Yeah, we all get cheesed sometimes, but the number of positive experiences I have in-game by far outweigh the number of negative ones

    This kind of sums up my feelings. I've been griefed my share of times, and it always seems to happen in the Burg or Parish. I lose a humanity, pick myself up, collect my souls, and move on. There's just too much to love about Dark Souls to let this ruin my experience. Besides, it gives me the opportunity to play as a low level character, and be summoned by new players to help them chase off the griefers.

    My favorite current build is a level 17 Pyromancer. I beat the kings, became a Darkwraith, and hated it. Now I drop my white stone, wear the Dark Armor, carry a lifehunt, and greet the griefers with a taste of blowback. VERY satisfying.
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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:51 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:I'm going to have to say, as I'm sure has been said already several times, that outside of hacking, which I don't really experience on the Ps3 anyway, that the single most irritating factor for me is the complainers. It's all part of the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. When I get owned I try to accept it as a learning experience and alter my strategies to try to overcome whatever beat me. Yeah, we all get cheesed sometimes, but the number of positive experiences I have in-game by far outweigh the number of negative ones
    My point exactly! +1 to you good sir for being an island of sense in a sea of idiocy! big grin


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:51 pm

    I have no explination. I don't know these people and I'm not a trained psychiatrist, and I'd bet my left nut that you're not either.

    Thats my point guys.

    They do what they do, like it or not, and, because we are not them, we are in no position to judge them or their actions.

    If pressed, I'd argue their right to do whatever they want within the rules of the gamein the pursuit of having fun, even though I find their methods.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:53 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:
    PlasticandRage wrote:I'm going to have to say, as I'm sure has been said already several times, that outside of hacking, which I don't really experience on the Ps3 anyway, that the single most irritating factor for me is the complainers. It's all part of the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. When I get owned I try to accept it as a learning experience and alter my strategies to try to overcome whatever beat me. Yeah, we all get cheesed sometimes, but the number of positive experiences I have in-game by far outweigh the number of negative ones

    This kind of sums up my feelings. I've been griefed my share of times, and it always seems to happen in the Burg or Parish. I lose a humanity, pick myself up, collect my souls, and move on. There's just too much to love about Dark Souls to let this ruin my experience. Besides, it gives me the opportunity to play as a low level character, and be summoned by new players to help them chase off the griefers.

    My favorite current build is a level 17 Pyromancer. I beat the kings, became a Darkwraith, and hated it. Now I drop my white stone, wear the Dark Armor, carry a lifehunt, and greet the griefers with a taste of blowback. VERY satisfying.


    I even try to look at hatemail positively. Sometimes it's just downright funny anyway, but usually if I just unmercifully wreck somebody, and then get hatemail afterwards, I try to use it as a platform to help them. Just yesterday I was matched against the same guy in the arena probably 4 times in a row, and he clearly was getting frustrated because each match he was getting cheaper and cheaper, and losing anyway. So I finally I get a message from him to leave the arena because I'm ruining his game, and I sent him a message back explaining why I was beating him so badly, and some of the options he had to try to fix it. He ended up thanking me for it. It's all an opportunity to get better. If you're having an issue, IMO it's generally not the game's fault, but a fault of your own perspective.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:56 pm

    Why? because I played Demons Souls. I'm not sure if you did so I'll explain.

    In that game instead of hollow form, you were stuck in soul form(only half health) if you died. The only way to become human again was to kill a boss(either in your world or helping someone else do it). Anyway, in that games equivalent to the burg you were forced to play in soul form. That meant no invasions or summons and only half your health(Phallanx was also a hell of a lot harder than Taurus ever was). It took me two whole days to finally get through the level, but by the time I was done with it I properly understood how to play the game.

    In this game you could summon and be invaded as soon as the first level, so on one hand you got players who need to summon two phantoms to even stand a chance against the bosses, and on the other you have griefers. I don't think either should exist, so If in the next game they have to restrict early game pvp then so be it.



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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by callipygias on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:56 pm

    Gazman0169 wrote:Yes, but how many first timers go through the burg Human?

    How many? More than anywhere else in the game, in my experience. CONSTANT summons in the Burg. Even busier than Anor Londo for me.

    Btw, don't get me wrong, I love Burg griefers. I think of them as pieces of ****, but I love them, because they make the Burg wonderful for co-op. We're usually at the black knight when my host is invaded. I switch from a +0 Warpick to a maxed Chaos Rapier or ltng. BSS, and it's so fun to see them backpedal when they see me coming at them. And unsurprisingly, 9 out of 10 of them suck.

    Burg griefers have caused people to quit the game though, and that's what this thread is sort of about, I think.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:58 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:
    PlasticandRage wrote:I'm going to have to say, as I'm sure has been said already several times, that outside of hacking, which I don't really experience on the Ps3 anyway, that the single most irritating factor for me is the complainers. It's all part of the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. When I get owned I try to accept it as a learning experience and alter my strategies to try to overcome whatever beat me. Yeah, we all get cheesed sometimes, but the number of positive experiences I have in-game by far outweigh the number of negative ones

    This kind of sums up my feelings. I've been griefed my share of times, and it always seems to happen in the Burg or Parish. I lose a humanity, pick myself up, collect my souls, and move on. There's just too much to love about Dark Souls to let this ruin my experience. Besides, it gives me the opportunity to play as a low level character, and be summoned by new players to help them chase off the griefers.

    My favorite current build is a level 17 Pyromancer. I beat the kings, became a Darkwraith, and hated it. Now I drop my white stone, wear the Dark Armor, carry a lifehunt, and greet the griefers with a taste of blowback. VERY satisfying.
    Wow, another Island, if we keep this up we'll soon have an Archipelago! big grin +1 to you also! cheers


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:03 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:Yes, but how many first timers go through the burg Human?
    Burg griefers have caused people to quit the game though, and that's what this thread is sort of about, I think.

    This is basically what I'm against, the game is hard enough for new players, maybe not for you and me but how many times have we gone through the game. I'm sure you've tried a speed run or low level run by now right? the game isn't hard for us, but it is for them, and they have the right to have their first experience with the soul series preserved.

    Forum Pirate: your left nut is safe for now.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:04 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Why? because I played Demons Souls. I'm not sure if you did so I'll explain.

    In that game instead of hollow form, you were stuck in soul form(only half health) if you died. The only way to become human again was to kill a boss(either in your world or helping someone else do it). Anyway, in that games equivalent to the burg you were forced to play in soul form. That meant no invasions or summons and only half your health(Phallanx was also a hell of a lot harder than Taurus ever was). It took me two whole days to finally get through the level, but by the time I was done with it I properly understood how to play the game.

    In this game you could summon and be invaded as soon as the first level, so on one hand you got players who need to summon two phantoms to even stand a chance against the bosses, and on the other you have griefers. I don't think either should exist, so If in the next game they have to restrict early game pvp then so be it.

    You've forgot the Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, admittedly you couldn't get it beore taking on the Phalanx, who I might add was arguably the easiest boss in the game, but it still granted you the ability to become Human.


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:08 pm

    Gazman0169 wrote:
    Sloth9230 wrote:Why? because I played Demons Souls. I'm not sure if you did so I'll explain.

    In that game instead of hollow form, you were stuck in soul form(only half health) if you died. The only way to become human again was to kill a boss(either in your world or helping someone else do it). Anyway, in that games equivalent to the burg you were forced to play in soul form. That meant no invasions or summons and only half your health(Phallanx was also a hell of a lot harder than Taurus ever was). It took me two whole days to finally get through the level, but by the time I was done with it I properly understood how to play the game.

    In this game you could summon and be invaded as soon as the first level, so on one hand you got players who need to summon two phantoms to even stand a chance against the bosses, and on the other you have griefers. I don't think either should exist, so If in the next game they have to restrict early game pvp then so be it.

    You've forgot the Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, admittedly you couldn't get it beore taking on the Phalanx, who I might add was arguably the easiest boss in the game, but it still granted you the ability to become Human.

    Easist boss in the game? I'd have to say that was the real king allant, but yes Phallanx was rather easy if you had turpentine(not as easy as plunge attacking Taurus/Asaylum Demon though >.>)


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:17 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    Gazman0169 wrote:Yes, but how many first timers go through the burg Human?

    How many? More than anywhere else in the game, in my experience. CONSTANT summons in the Burg. Even busier than Anor Londo for me.

    Btw, don't get me wrong, I love Burg griefers. I think of them as pieces of ****, but I love them, because they make the Burg wonderful for co-op. We're usually at the black knight when my host is invaded. I switch from a +0 Warpick to a maxed Chaos Rapier or ltng. BSS, and it's so fun to see them backpedal when they see me coming at them. And unsurprisingly, 9 out of 10 of them suck.

    Burg griefers have caused people to quit the game though, and that's what this thread is sort of about, I think.
    Then I would argue that perhaps they were not of the right frame of mind to be playing the game to begin with, and would then go on to question why anyone so easily put off would come to a game that warns you right from the outset in big bold letters to 'PREPARE TO DIE'?


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    Re: So what do you think the number one thing wrecking Dark Souls is?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:19 pm

    It's one thing die because of lack of skill, it's another to die because you stood no real chance.


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