Fighting random people.

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    XachAttack
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    Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:57 am

    How the hell do you people manage to do this? The matches are usually so quick that you can't learn anything!

    Personally, in order for me to get better, I need to fight the same few people to learn how things work. Not just go match after match with totally random setups @_@.

    If any of you can tell me how you're.."supposed", for the lack of a better term, to do this, then please, tell me. I'm stumped.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by The Letter X on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:09 am

    Just do it a lot. Like 24/7 for at least one month. Well, not that much but you get the idea. The way I approach random fights is to pay attention to what got me killed whenever I lost. It really helped since whatever caused my previous downfall either hardly happened or never happened again.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:13 am

    The Letter X wrote:The way I approach random fights is to pay attention to what got me killed whenever I lost. It really helped since whatever caused my previous downfall either hardly happened or never happened again.

    Yeah, I try to do that as well. But that's exactly why I can't understand how it's done. You hardly ever see anyone doing the same thing again. Well, I seem to anyway.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by The Letter X on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:23 am

    It's possible that you are approaching things a bit more specifically than I am. I remember my first week PvPing (not saying you're new to PvP, I doubt you are) I told myself things like "don't get parried," "don'tgdon't get hit by a greatsword," "don't get backstabbed," "don't miss heavy attacks," "be prepared for phantom hits."

    I was more than likely going to see at least one of those things if not several in every fight. There were things on occasion however when I'd fight an exceptionally skilled player that I'd just keep in the back of my mind so it wouldn't surprise me later.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by reim0027 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:24 am

    I find it hard to fight randoms. After doing a bunch of invasions, I'm better . . . to a point. I've started to get used to 2v1 and 2v2, which messes up 1v1 fighting.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:27 am

    If the matches are too quick, you're either good enough already and can't learn much more new, or you suck. lol!

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.

    Now, seriously.
    I can talk only from my experience as somebody, that wasn't part of the community until recently and done only random invasions. As such, I have no problems fighting random people and I think I win about 3/4 of all my random PvP fights. However I suck terribly at prearranged duels. I win roughly about 1/5 of them.

    Anyway, here goes...

    I've found that to learn something , you must review your duels and how you died, or won and to be a bit passive.

    The first part is quite self explanatory, but still...
    If you die many times to the same thing, you should think about what you're doing wrong. You can also try to use that thing yourself and see what others do against it. You can copy the best results of others, or come with your own.
    You can also use this to find a way to counter the counter.
    Let the mind games begin. winking

    By being passive I don't mean to turtle, but to wait for your opponent to attack and base your actions on his. It makes the fights longer, sometimes even minutes, but you learn a lot about your opponent and the things he's using. Repeat it a few times with similar opponent and you will know perfectly well how to fight every trick up their sleeve. People I've met so far weren't very creative and sooner than later, you will find another one.

    Random invasions have one great benefit.
    No rules.
    You will get backstabbed, ganked, lured into ambushes, people will heal and spam etc.

    In on way it sucks to deal with all that :dung: , but you will know how to deal with it, so when somebody does it the next time, you will punish them for doing so. In prearranged matches, you got rules, they may make the fight more enjoyable, but they bind you and will come to bite you in the :bas: when you go random, as people will not care about them and when they will see you can't counter something, perhpas because it was a taboo in a prearranged duels, they will exploit this against you.

    That's my opinion at least. happy

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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by The Letter X on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:28 am

    reim0027 wrote:I find it hard to fight randoms. After doing a bunch of invasions, I'm better . . . to a point. I've started to get used to 2v1 and 2v2, which messes up 1v1 fighting.

    I hate how true that is. Fights just feel awkward when I leave the Forest.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:33 am

    I guess I should start taking notes eh? That I can do. I'll think on this more, thanks guys o/.

    If anyone else has any more nice info, please do post it! Knowledge is power.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 am

    XachAttack wrote:I guess I should start taking notes eh? That I can do. I'll think on this more, thanks guys o/.

    If anyone else has any more nice info, please do post it! Knowledge is power.
    ^ That. winking

    No need to take notes.
    It comes down naturally to everyone, it's just a matter of time.

    Look, a fine example is WoG.
    You know you can block it, if you have a decent Mag resistant shield, or simply roll through it.

    How do you know this? Somebody told you, or showed you? Have you found out on your own?
    It doesn't matter, you know what to do against it and taht's the important part.

    Now you can practice both of these to reach higher level.
    Being able to parry it and being able to roll bs punish it, for example.

    At the end of day, you will know WoG and ways to counter it so well, that you will do it by instinct and the spell itself will never pose a problem for you again.

    Heck you might get into the phase of anticipating it and seeing it not as a threat, but as a big flashy sign saying: "Please backstab me, my back is itchy!"

    This applies to more, or less everything in PvP and PvE in Souls games.
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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:05 am

    If you can't learn from your opponents, you can always start by learning on your own!

    One of the most important things to be familiar with, besides how other people fight, is what they fight with. You don't need to fight other people to get familiar with each weapon and its moveset, you can do that on your own. In your own world, try out every weapon you can get your hands on. Use each weapon (every weapon type, at least) for a few areas, until you're acquainted with its moveset, its strengths and weaknesses, then move on to the next. That way, next time you come up against a random opponent, you can immediately spot his weapon and, even though you won't know his fighting style yet, you'll at least somewhat know the limitations of his weapon and how to take advantage of it (and you'll have some idea how you can parry it, too).

    Shields are less important, but it's good to know which ones can parry and which can't, so you know if it's safe to spam R1 or if you should be more cautious. Also important if you're using magic or pyro, you should know if you're wasting your castings on their shield (example: black knight shield, Havel's shield, etc).

    Armor is also good to know, that way you can quickly gauge how much poise they have (factor in the Wolf's ring's noticeable glow, too!). This is a great asset, since you'll be able to judge if you've got the advantage in staggering and stun-locking your opponent, or if he's got that advantage on you.

    Once you know all these things, you'll be much better prepared for random fights. Then all that's left is to get familiar with people's fighting styles (some are very aggressive, some are cautious, some will try to parry, others will turtle; some like to rely on patterns that you can punish, others are more unpredictable, etc, etc.).


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by raecor14 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:46 am

    playing against randoms is the only way i have ever learned, for example i WOG spam, but my wog spam may be different to a higher faiths wog spam because they want to kill you solely with that, where as i want to weaken you before i cut you up ^_^


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:53 am

    ^Yeah, I used to have a build that only had 1 WoG attuned, and I'd use it only to break guards, or interrupt my opponent's charge, so I could follow it up with a few Katana swings. I'd rarely even use all 3 casts, and that'd be over the course of the entire fight, and I still got accused of WoG spamming! Look Skyward

    That was about a year ago, though!


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:06 pm

    They be jelly of the air hump :P

    Thanks alot for all the advice guys \o/ it's super helpful!


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by passivefamiliar on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 pm

    Its just doing it. Over and over. Random or repetitive. I still suck at pvp honestly. I pull a win out from time to time. But in general, i lose. I still enjoy the fights though. Usually i've found that you can't beat a certain technique until it's killed you a few times. The learning curve is very, subconscious in my opinion.

    I don't have a notebook with info about how to counter a backstab fisher. Or the timings on spells or anything. I just...do it. You'll see someone approach you a certain way and you'll hope you predict what they are going to do, and if all else fails just come out swinging and see what happens.

    Be unpredictable. I have one build, its a strength build. But i wear light EQ, ninja type gear. And use a light shield and a dagger. As long as i can, then mid fight or when the chance arises, i switch to a black knight great axe and give my opponent a beating. Sometimes it works wonders, other time the person sees it coming and adjusts.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:37 pm

    passivefamiliar wrote:Be unpredictable. I have one build, its a strength build. But i wear light EQ, ninja type gear. And use a light shield and a dagger. As long as i can, then mid fight or when the chance arises, i switch to a black knight great axe and give my opponent a beating. Sometimes it works wonders, other time the person sees it coming and adjusts.
    Whenever I meet this type of character I think:

    A) Caster. Will spam DB, or WoG if things get hairy for him.
    B) Hidden Str, probably with Hornet. Probably gonna try to bs OHKO me.
    C) Parry type, won't like my Black Flame/Notched Whip. What will he do if parry attampts fail? Revert ro A, or B.
    D) BS fisher (depending on dagger and poise), unless he lags, he will fail, what then? Revert to A, or B.

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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:43 pm

    i have fought reim 100 million times and i can never win on my dex build. and when i fight randoms i usually win with that build.

    what usually gets you killed?


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:55 pm

    Nothing specifically, just basically everything, I guess.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:01 pm

    magic spam? certain spells? certain pyros? any certain weapons?? getting back stabbed? always get parried?


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:54 pm

    As I said, nothing really specific, just a bit of everything.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:04 pm

    just practice then. eventually you will get better, just don't resort to
    "cheap tatics" and spell spamming BS fishing, you might win matches that way but you won't get better.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:15 pm

    Yeah, you don't have to worry about me being cheap. I hate it when people fight like that too.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Ghadis_God on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:12 pm

    I've gotten much more accustomed to dueling rather than invading recently, they're two different mindsets. You'll get better at dueling from fighting just one person, but invading trains a different set of skills pertaining to staying alive and crushing the opponent no matter what his style is. In a duel I can play around and figure my opponent out before things get serious, but in an invasion you don't have that luxury, you have to focus on what you're doing. Also, learn to tell armors from one another. After extensive experience, I can tell you what breakpoint an enemy does/doesn't hit just by looking at his armor and how many hits my weapon will take to stun him.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:21 pm

    What's the different between a duel and invasion?? With the exception of Possibly running into a 3v1.

    I never understood how an invasion is different from a duel, both situations our objective is to kill the other person, and both are done for fun.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by The Letter X on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:26 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:What's the different between a duel and invasion?? With the exception of Possibly running into a 3v1.

    I never understood how an invasion is different from a duel, both situations our objective is to kill the other person, and both are done for fun.

    The only difference I really notice between the 2 is that dueling is more laid back. We will think that the other person will at least fight with some degree of respect, so we won't have to watch our backs the whole fight or be wary of a talisman being pulled out midfight. That's for a majority of the time at least.

    Duels go at a slightly different, maybe slower pace than invading. I feel like it's more of a duel rather than a scrap, that's all.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

    Post by Ghadis_God on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:48 pm

    Yeah glute, a duel is more laid back. Though I want to win the same amount, I expect my opponent to pull dirty tricks or not respect the fight in an invasion. As a member of the Darkstalkers, I'm also a bit more liberal with using cheap tactics myself in an invasion, with the understanding that my opponent will as well.


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    Re: Fighting random people.

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