For MAGIC LOVERS

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    Wintercatalyst
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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Wintercatalyst on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:28 am

    That Sounds pretty cool, but those spells act as weapons as you can upgrade and attach properties. It would really complete a lot of Int builds, give a really magical presence. As for the pure damage ones, they could be normal spells.
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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by mr_no_face on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 pm

    i like the bloodstain necromancy idea but if it couldn't summon the actual player maybe just a AI with the players equipment

    and the magic summoned weapons have already been discussed


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:52 pm

    Yeah... magic lightsabers just don't fit the Souls universe at ALL. I do hope for some necromancy (in a land brimming with Hollows, can there really be no necromancy?) and utility (including illusion) magic.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by mr_no_face on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:13 pm

    Acarnatia i think you have the wrong image in your head about the magic weapon catalyst idea remember the moonlight scimitar that garl Finlands' sister had in Demon's Souls? imagine that blade coming out of a catlyst rather than a lightsaber


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Rin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:20 pm

    A blood/dark magic type spell(s) that affects both the player and the phantom/enemy ...
    Power of Blood- buff type- 50% more damage output, 50% more damage input(does not stack with other Power or Blood spells)
    Blood Pool- area effect- creates a pool of blood that damages anyone inside (3 hp per second)
    Blood Arrow- attack type- user shoots a bolt of their own blood at the enemy if the blood doesn't hit a target it returns to its owner dealing no damage (deal equal damage to both players depending on the casetrs *** skill)
    and others...


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:41 am

    Make Pyromancy based upon Resistance (Tougher people don't get burned quite so easily), but keep the Soul Boosting part of it. Anyone can use it, but only the Hardy can use it well.

    Would love to see an Ice Based magic system, Cyromancy or such. Dunno what it could do.

    Would love for Pyromancy to get some decent utility spells. Sure, Iron Flesh, Power Within, and Flash Sweat are awesome, but they are nothing compared to Chameleon, Cast Light, Homeward, or any of that....

    Also, Toxic Weapon, a weapon buff that causes your blade to apply toxin every hit. Not build meter, but fully apply it.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:47 am

    I actually hate Mages....


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:10 am

    God, please no ice or blood. If those get added, we'll get the pokemon element problem; a list of so-called elements in a really silly rock-paper-scissors effect. I thyink besides the glaringly obvious, (such as magic dealing with undead in a world filled with them) entirely new branches of magic should be avoided.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by LordZaibek on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:56 pm

    The whole point of necromancy is to use the dead against your opponents. The spells would be like summon skeleton, summon undead dog, summon 30 second undead knight or something else along those lines.
    As for energomancy, I think miracles should be the only things that can summon lightning.
    However, I would like to see a category for Poison and Plague users that can either have easy to hit with but low drain poisons or hard to hit powerful poisons and maybe some other debuffs like lowering poise or decreasing critical hit damage for those backstabbers.
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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:18 pm

    I like the idea of sorcery having a self created blade, though could make it difficult to balance.

    I'd love to see an ice related magic, as energy is kinda done with miracles.. But I dunno.

    Aoe sorcery I think kinda takes away from its unique ideal, though having magic that can turn towards enemies more would be good.

    Miracles need to be more for utility for me, healing is great but stuff like warding against damages and power boosts is what I imagine miracles to be, I'd like to see more like that as well as the few attacking magics it provides.

    Having dark magic as a separate concept would be cool as a rough and ready stunning attack


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Fossil on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:22 pm

    I'd like to see they way magic is done changed a little. I don't really like they idea of having to equip a "weapon" to use magic, but moreso I don't like the way pyromancy was done in Dark Souls. Either remove the pyromancy glove and go back to just catalysts/talismans, or you could have a new system for magic all together. The various trees I'd suggest would be Arcane (sorcery), Fire (pyromancy), Ice (cryomancy), Light (miracles), Dark (necromancy).

    You could have a catalyst for Magic (fire/ice/arcane) and a talisman for Miracles (light/dark).

    Alternatively you could simply have a magic item slot (I'll refer to it as an Idol) that boosts magic in different ways.

    Examples:
    Frozen Idol - Boosts Cryomancy by 100%, lowers all other magics by 50%
    Burning Idol - Boosts Pyromancy by 100%, lowers all other magics by 50%
    Trinity - Boosts Fire/Ice/Arcane magic by 25%, lowers Dark/Light by 50%
    Holy Idol - Boosts Miracles by 100%, lowers all other magics by 50%
    Dichotomous Idol - Boosts Light/Dark magic by 50%, lowers Fire/Ice/Arcane by 50%
    Stalwart Idol - Boosts physical defense by 20%, lowers all magics by 50%

    This isn't necessary something I want to happen, but just an idea of how you could add more magic trees without having to add weapons for every single one. And of course I pulled those numbers out of my ***, but I think you get the general idea.

    Also consider that a mage character could still cast spells like Homeward (assuming they meet the requirements) or even Heal, but it would be at a greatly reduced rate and they wouldn't have to weapon swap just to do so. They could choose to specialize in Pyromancy at the cost of their other magics, or they could use something like Trinity to be more balanced.

    INT based magic

    Arcane (sorcery) - Mostly the same. Standard magic, illusiory magic, deceptive tree
    Reflect - Halves damage from next damaging attack and reflects it to attacker
    Decoy - Creates an illusiory copy of caster to distract attackers
    (this is already pretty fleshed out so I don't have much to add here)

    Ice (cryomancy) - More defensive tree.
    Frozen Armor - Increases armor by X amount for X amount of time (good for something like a battle mage)
    Ice Barrier - Increases Poise by X amount for next 2 attacks
    Some sort of slowing spell that isn't stupidly overpowered

    Fire (pyromancy) - Again, mostly the same. I don't know what to do here, maybe lower some of the damage, but add a burn effect that does damage over time or boosts your damage when your target is burning. This could have synergy with Fire weapons (fire weapons build burn meter) again allowing you to take on more of a battle mage role if you want.

    Faith Magic

    Light (miracles)
    - Mostly the same. Protective magic, buffs.
    Move Iron Flesh here to be more in line with the protective nature of miracles
    Holy Might - Temporarily lowers Equip Burden by 50%
    Unyielding Faith - Boosts Stamina regen
    Cleanse - Removes negative status effects

    Note: one of the issues with Miracles as someone mentioned earlier is that too many buffs become useless if you can only buff yourself once. I do think there should be offensive miracles, but I don't necessarily have suggestions at the moment.

    Dark (necromancy) - Occult version of miracles. More offensive.
    Move Power Within here to be more in line with the dark aggressive nature of necromancy
    Move poison spells here
    Gravelord Dances moved here (though still Faith magic, so not much has changed)
    Raise Skeleton - Summons a skeletal minion to fight with you for 30 seconds or until defeated
    Bone Armor - Reduces damage of the next 3 attacks by 10%


    Overall I'd like to see a lot more magic for situational purposes and role-fulfillment. I think most imbalances can be avoided with stat requirements. For example I'd even like to see a Flash Heal that heals about 15% of your HP, has a quick cast time, but a Faith requirement of 40 or so.
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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Acarnatia on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:15 pm

    . I actually liked the way pyromancy was done because; it was something different; it gave non-int/faith users the ability to cast if they just increased Attunement; (not all spells should require faith or intellectual ability) and it completely fit with the lore that pyromancy, that while originally derived from fire sorcerery,it was still inherently different and cannot qualify as sorcerery.
    I pray that there is no ice magic. The flair of the crystal magic was too close already.
    Fire is not inherently offensive or aggressive; fire is used for forging, warming and a myriad of other uses that can be quite gentle or utilitarian.
    Light and healing magic are different. Light should not be strictly for faith users anymore than fire should be for intelligence users. The same holds true for darkness. (and if we're basing it/being inspired by the propoganda spread European Christian churches in the Medieval Ages and Renaissance, then darkness should unquestionably be intelligence, not faith) Darkness is also inherently different from necromancy. Darkness deals with void, the absence of light and possibly evil; (depending on the details of the setting) necromancy deals in the essences of life, death and undeath, which, again, depending on the setting, may or may not be evil, and is a different subject from darkness entirely. While already existing lore hints at some connection, there seems to be equally, if not a greater, connection between undead and fire (or THE Fire) I am quite glad that Souls has made this distinction instead of jumping on the mainstream bandwagon of light healing and darkness raising undead, when those are four different subjects, not two.
    As far as entirely new branches of magic go, I really think there shouldn't be any. Lightning in the seems to be inherently tied to the gods, particularly Gwyn. Ice magic is largely a recent invention of modern fantasy and, unlike so much of the magic in the Souls series, really has little to no old folklore to draw on or base it off of. Remember, one of the reasons that fire had it's own separate casting system is that that was one of the main themes of the game-fire, darkness and undead, as Miyazaki himself told us.
    As for the 'magic boosts'-no. Just no. Even without going into the lore, magic is difficult enough to balance as it is; giving those to casters is going to create a huge gap between the effectiveness of casters and noncasters.
    The Souls series takes place in a low-magic universe. There are not archmages leveling towers, there are not knights with twenty-pound pauldrons with magic EVERYTHING, limited teleportation is only known to come from a deific artifact. Aside from crystals, magic in this world isn't flashy. It's humble, rough and unrefined; it's what our own myths and folklore described as magic, rather than the overpowered fireworks of World of Warcraft, and I hope it stays this way.



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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Fossil on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:24 pm

    Heh, fair enough. I can't say I agree with you on all points, but you at least have sound reasoning. Fire is indeed it's own sort of piece of lore, so I get where you're coming from with pyromancy. However it's still my opinion that I don't like the way it was implemented. Necromancy was actually a poor choice on my part for Dark magic, but I saw it thrown out there and didn't know what else to call it.

    As far as the boosting thing, I didn't intend it as a way to actually do insane damage/healing, but a system that could allow you have access to a larger variety of spells, but choose what to specialize in without becoming a demi-God or having to carry around a bunch of different casting weapons. It would be difficult to balance though.

    These are just ideas I'm throwing out there, but mostly I'd just like to see a little bit more diversity in spells that lend themselves to particular playstyles and ways to counter other playstyles.

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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Kyōkai on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:52 pm

    We need some Master Sparks here.



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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:56 pm

    I like pyromancy. It definitely requires the least investment to be effective, but its the least effective even with all 45 points in dex. Its weaker, slower and has less variety than the other magics.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:41 pm

    We need a hadoken in the game!



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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Seignar on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:45 pm

    Bear in mind I only read the first post:

    What I would like for magic in Dark Souls II is a new casting system that works like an MP system, but still does what the attunement system does. What I am getting at is an MP bar that cannot be recovered by items, but rather resting at the bonfire or slaying an enemy by non-magic means. The whole purpose here is to allow mages to cast spells more often, but not by an excessive amount.

    The problem with the current attunement system, as someone pointed out long ago, is that being a "skillful" mage requires you not using magic until you reach the boss, who you proceed to pummel to death with your "endless" magic. With this system, a mage still has to get up close and personal at some point, but they are rewarded with more casts for doing so. This also lets mages compete in areas that have many enemies.

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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by ComaPrison on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:00 am

    Best magic ever.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4uHVFMcpXA

    And even more best magic. Animation courtesy of our friendly neighborhood Northrop Grumman.

    http://youtu.be/S-V6MZlyCqE


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Slarg232 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:09 am

    Seignar wrote:Bear in mind I only read the first post:

    What I would like for magic in Dark Souls II is a new casting system that works like an MP system, but still does what the attunement system does. What I am getting at is an MP bar that cannot be recovered by items, but rather resting at the bonfire or slaying an enemy by non-magic means. The whole purpose here is to allow mages to cast spells more often, but not by an excessive amount.

    The problem with the current attunement system, as someone pointed out long ago, is that being a "skillful" mage requires you not using magic until you reach the boss, who you proceed to pummel to death with your "endless" magic. With this system, a mage still has to get up close and personal at some point, but they are rewarded with more casts for doing so. This also lets mages compete in areas that have many enemies.

    Meh, I say bring back the mana system, but make Magic Weapons grant Mana back on hit. So you then have to choose; do I make my intel as a Buff, or do I get mana back as a caster?



    Also, wehre is that black mage from? I know FF, but is he from a comic or something?


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Sloth9230 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:27 am

    Seignar: That would be great for PVE But horrible for PVP. 2 casts of fire tempest or WoG or whatever and your mage is now an inferior meele build. It's how Demon's Souls magic system worked(minus the recharge). In order for it to be viable, you'd have to increase the damage on most spells. If Dark Bead is anything to go by, then I'm guessing that that's something most people wouldn't like.

    It would either make most mages overpowered or very weak after they've used 1 or 2 strong spells. Getting 1 shotted by WoG because of lag is not a pleasant experience.

    The atonement system isn't perfect, but it's preferable to the mana system. At least I prefer multiple casts of a weaker spell over only being allowed to use a 1 shot spell Twice.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:35 am

    A bit late to the party, so I'm just gonna post as if I'm responding to the OP right now since I haven't read all the thread yet winking

    I actually want to see less magical "schools" and more variety put into the groups. Like how in Demon's Souls, sorcerers got Fire and Magic damage spells or how in Dark Souls clerics got Magical or Lightning spells. You want Necromancy? Make it a branch of Faith that happens to follow a god of death. Energomancy? A form of sorcery that draws not just from the self, but from nature as well similar to Oolacile sorceries or the Flame sorceries of the Witch of Izalith.

    If you make too many separate magical "schools" you shoehorn each of those schools into using only those spells. I still feel that the separation of magical and fire spells in Dark Souls caused sorcery, at least when it was first released, to boil down to nothing but different forms of Soul Arrow and that the Dark Sorceries were purely a reaction to this to provide some variety for Int builds.

    Another example is how Faith builds became so much more interesting in Dark Souls than they were in Demon's Souls. In Demon's Souls Faith was entirely healing and utility spells, with it's only offensive spell being very niche. This was likely to ensure that Faith wasn't too similar of a gameplay experience to Sorcery, but in trying to make it different from other spell groups they severely crippled the options it had available to it. In Dark Souls they introduced the Covenant system, allowing for miracles to be used in many different ways based on who you wanted your character to "worship."

    So again, the bottom line is that I'd like to see fewer groups of spells, but more variety and spell options within those groups.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:39 am

    A sorcerer can have 90 casts of soul arrow in short order. I just used that for most mobs and saved the soul spears and great soul arrows for bosses. Thus (fairly easily) punching big blue holes in the entire game. I didn't even have a melee weapon.

    More aggressive enemies should necessitate casters can do close combat without hampering their effectiveness. If they have to melee, why be a mage.


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:A sorcerer can have 90 casts of soul arrow in short order. I just used that for most mobs and saved the soul spears and great soul arrows for bosses. Thus (fairly easily) punching big blue holes in the entire game. I didn't even have a melee weapon.

    More aggressive enemies should necessitate casters can do close combat without hampering their effectiveness. If they have to melee, why be a mage.

    The beauty of Demon's Souls, where Combustion was a sorcery...


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:57 am

    We need an AOE Anti-Healing Spell, as well as the Banish spell to return from Demon's Souls


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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:00 am

    @ ReaperFan- Exactly. Thank you for putting that so well.
    I really noticed, that, too. There's an often assumption about fantasy worlds that divine magic has to be about healing, buffing and protection, which is not true to any of the myths and folklore that first inspired those very fantasy worlds. In Greek mythology, Zeus smote those he grew angry at with lightning; (or in Narcissus' case, made him fall in love with his own reflection) In Judaism/Christianity/Islam, the Creator caused a flood that destroyed the bulk of life on Earth. Then there are the works of evil deities and demons and their followers; divine magic has ample reason to be destructive. It's simply another aspect within divine magic. Divine magic is a broad category, already including lightning, death, force and healing in the Souls setting; it'd be better to add one or two extra subcategories, rather than add in another casting system altogether.
    The same is true for sorceries, though there is little variety as it is in Souls. As an avid sorcerer/spellsword, I've found little viable variety in the spells; only a few are really worth the points necessary to put in Int to use them, so sorcerery has little variety. Just adding a greater wealth of well-made spells can add a lot of fun variety.

    @Sloth- My response-FIGHTERDOKEN!!! That or I can reduce my Int to 1 and thereby gain the ability to block all damage on a partial parry, including spells.
    I would have included a picture; I can't find one of the fighterdoken without the entire page.
    I have a particular spell suggestion; Crystal Soul Cannon! ... I think that's pushing it at the very least, though. 8-Bit is still awesome.


    _________________
    I am him who seeks himself;
    Fallen Heaven's malice was I born to bear.
    A phantom-ghost treading upon the mists of Heaven,
    Malevolence or Heaven am I?
    I am the absolute devoted,
    The wraith.

    PSN: Enaid_Waleis (main), Try-chu

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    Re: For MAGIC LOVERS

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      Current date/time is Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:04 am